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Look, I know I am coming across a bit of a prick. "Plenty of people have been enjoying this category of software." Really? I ask sincerely. Because it seems to

Look, I know I am coming across a bit of a prick. "Plenty of people have been enjoying this category of software." Really? I ask sincerely. Because it seems to me that this category of software is mostly a curiosity / novelty. Are there actual publishing musicians who have used text-to-music as part of their workflow? My perception is that no one actually uses these tools for real music creation. Hence my point that they are novelty and not actually impactful.

bravura 3y ago
And just to contribute to the discussion in a meaningful way: The problem with text-to-music isn't really that text is a poor UX for music description, but also that it's almost definitely a one-shot process. And any sort of turn-taking with the user isn't really co-collaborative, it's really just being forced to accept or reject what the AI has generated, with little feedback or control possible. That's why I think rethinking the entire UX from a musician centric perspective (rather than: "what's the easiest thing for me to specify as a tool-builder? I know, text to music") is such an overlooked endeavor. I'm much more bullish about things like the anticipatory music transformer, where there is novel contribution on the UX and not just the ML: https://crfm.stanford.edu/2023/06/16/anticipatory-music-transformer.html https://crfm.stanford.edu/2023/06/16/anticipatory-music-tran...
bongodongobob 3y ago
Oh they are definitely using it, but no one is going to admit it. You misunderstand the workflow. I'm not trying to create a text prompt that generates hits. It's a way to get ideas and find interesting stuff rather than doing it manually with a guitar or on the piano. Then you have to walk away for some time to clean your sonic pallette and try again. As a lifelong musician I am absolutely loving all the conversation around this stuff. Musicians steal everything, all the time. The idea of some genius that sits down and pops out a hit in 30 minutes that comes deep from within their soul and has all the meaning attached to it is a myth. We're trying to make things people can connect with. Yes, some musicians are doing it for the sake of art, but not most, and even with a lot of those, it's just an image they project. When you hear a song, it has probably gone through half a dozen different versions and was worked on for months. These new AI music generation tools will churn out 100 different ideas from you to borrow from and cut the revisions down quite a bit I think.
glimshe 3y ago
I would love to use it if I can add enough variation to the song and it can generate a good backing for the lyrics. I'm not a "publishing musician", but the music market is much bigger than music performers - for instance, music for advertisements, presentation, video backing tracks etc.
earslap 3y ago
Music is not constrained to... publishing musicians, and "real music" is not defined by them. The fact that novelists are not depending on LLMs to write their next book does not mean that they are not (or will not be) impactful. From a product point of view, you have an audience of billions of non-musicians to begin with. You surely can't pretend to have the final say on people's relationship with how they like to enjoy their music or other sound content. Besides, even a novelty can evolve to something not imaginable today. The fact that we can go that far with text only at this early stage is a sign of things to come. When creating something, there is a place for expressing your intent with language. Maybe not all of it all the time, but we'll see how things will evolve.
deleted 3y ago
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bravura 3y ago

And just to contribute to the discussion in a meaningful way: The problem with text-to-music isn't really that text is a poor UX for music description, but also that it's almost definitely a one-shot process. And any sort of turn-taking with the user isn't really co-collaborative, it's really just being forced to accept or reject what the AI has generated, with little feedback or control possible. That's why I think rethinking the entire UX from a musician centric perspective (rather than: "what's the easiest thing for me to specify as a tool-builder? I know, text to music") is such an overlooked endeavor. I'm much more bullish about things like the anticipatory music transformer, where there is novel contribution on the UX and not just the ML: https://crfm.stanford.edu/2023/06/16/anticipatory-music-transformer.html https://crfm.stanford.edu/2023/06/16/anticipatory-music-tran...

bongodongobob 3y ago

Oh they are definitely using it, but no one is going to admit it. You misunderstand the workflow. I'm not trying to create a text prompt that generates hits. It's a way to get ideas and find interesting stuff rather than doing it manually with a guitar or on the piano. Then you have to walk away for some time to clean your sonic pallette and try again. As a lifelong musician I am absolutely loving all the conversation around this stuff. Musicians steal everything, all the time. The idea of some genius that sits down and pops out a hit in 30 minutes that comes deep from within their soul and has all the meaning attached to it is a myth. We're trying to make things people can connect with. Yes, some musicians are doing it for the sake of art, but not most, and even with a lot of those, it's just an image they project. When you hear a song, it has probably gone through half a dozen different versions and was worked on for months. These new AI music generation tools will churn out 100 different ideas from you to borrow from and cut the revisions down quite a bit I think.

glimshe 3y ago

I would love to use it if I can add enough variation to the song and it can generate a good backing for the lyrics. I'm not a "publishing musician", but the music market is much bigger than music performers - for instance, music for advertisements, presentation, video backing tracks etc.

earslap 3y ago

Music is not constrained to... publishing musicians, and "real music" is not defined by them. The fact that novelists are not depending on LLMs to write their next book does not mean that they are not (or will not be) impactful. From a product point of view, you have an audience of billions of non-musicians to begin with. You surely can't pretend to have the final say on people's relationship with how they like to enjoy their music or other sound content. Besides, even a novelty can evolve to something not imaginable today. The fact that we can go that far with text only at this early stage is a sign of things to come. When creating something, there is a place for expressing your intent with language. Maybe not all of it all the time, but we'll see how things will evolve.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]