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Just to get ahead of the standard comments: 1. So-and-so Tesla Youtuber/Blog/News/Influencer said that they pressed the accelerator/manipulated results which i

by Veserv 3y ago

Just to get ahead of the standard comments: 1. So-and-so Tesla Youtuber/Blog/News/Influencer said that they pressed the accelerator/manipulated results which invalidates the results and shows the test are untrustworthy. Let us examine that claim. Why would pressing the accelerator or other manipulations invalidate the results? Nobody would argue that turning on the windshield wipers or setting the cabin temperature would invalidate the results. What is special about the accelerator or other stated manipulations? The answer is that they could change the results which would invalidate a test. The actual claim the Tesla influencers are making is: "The only reason the car would run down a child in that situation is because the accelerator was pressed/car was manipulated." The video evidence for the last year has proven that is a bold-faced lie. Every claimed manipulation that can be caught on video has been thoroughly proven to be a outright fabrication. The car will run down children while FSD is enabled in simple circumstances when operated normally and has demonstrably done so for over a year. The videos the Tesla influencer community point to are earlier videos that did not have sufficient clarity yet to disprove their lies so they thought they would not get caught. The newer videos with increased clarity prove them to be unrepentant liars who will fabricate whatever is convenient as long as they think they can not get caught. If any of the Tesla mouthpieces show up in the comments here to regurgitate the newest "manipulation" I will show what I mean. 2. The clearly visible child facing the road stepped out into the road at the last second, which children never do, so the laws of physics make it impossible for a car, that did not show caution and slow down when clearly visible children are by the road, to stop. So, the car had no choice but to run down the child and then continue for a few seconds to roll over the child while it is on the ground. I think I will let that point speak for itself.

nomel 3y ago
I think it’s better to respond to comments than fabricate them.
Ukv 3y ago
> The videos the Tesla influencer community point to are earlier videos that did not have sufficient clarity yet to disprove their lies so they thought they would not get caught Haven't kept up with the drama in a while, but to my understanding the issue people took with the Dawn Project's initial video was not that it lacked clarity - but that it had the clarity to see that FSD was not engaged.[0] Could be explained, such as if the Dawn Project did the tests legitimately and then went back to capture footage for the ad, but I wouldn't assign so much malice ("unrepentant liars who will fabricate whatever is convenient as long as they think they can not get caught") to people pointing it out. [0]: https://electrek.co/2022/08/10/tesla-self-driving-smear-campaign-releases-test-fails-fsd-never-engaged/ https://electrek.co/2022/08/10/tesla-self-driving-smear-camp...
- Veserv 3y ago
  Except that it was engaged as stated in the Safety Test Report [1] and as seen in the raw footage [2]. Rather than acknowledging that a incomplete investigation with conflicting information demands waiting for confirmatory evidence such as the raw footage which would have demonstrated their assumptions on the validity of the test were false, they chose to immediately begin declaring it a smear campaign based on false tests. They are not liars because they point out FSD was not engaged in portions of the ad. They are liars because they then straight up ignored evidence to the contrary and then assert, in confidence, that the tests were certainly fabricated and that FSD would never operate as demonstrated even though the video evidence that was forthcoming proved their assertions were completely and utterly wrong. As to being unrepentant liars. Is a legitimate test demonstrating a critical safety defect in a consumer product a smear campaign? No. Have they retracted their false accusation that correctly exposing a critical safety defect is a smear campaign since they jumped the gun on their accusations before they did even a token investigation? No. Then it is a lie and they are unrepentant. As to being willing to fabricate whatever is convenient. As soon as it became clear that FSD was enabled during those tests, the party line became that the only reason it happened was because the accelerator was pressed. This is false as can be seen in the current video. Then it became the only reason it happened was because the cones prevented a swerve. This is false as can be seen in the current video. Then it became the only reason it happened was because they steered into the child. This is false as can be seen in the current video. Every single one of these accusations was made because they thought the video could not disprove it and every single one has been proven to be false once the video setup was improved so it could disprove them. The fact that people, to this day, still deliberately point back to the earliest videos because they can not find any way to lie about the current videos without getting caught is bad faith argumentation. To then argue the Dawn Project is untrustworthy because of false accusations made by liars is true grade A bad faith argumentation that needs to be nipped in the bud. [1] https://dawnproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/The_Dawn_Project___Tesla_FSD_Test__8_.pdf https://dawnproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/The_Dawn_... [2] https://dawnproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/raw-footage.mp4 https://dawnproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/raw-foota...
  - Ukv 3y ago

by Veserv 3y ago

nomel 3y ago

I think it’s better to respond to comments than fabricate them.

Ukv 3y ago

> The videos the Tesla influencer community point to are earlier videos that did not have sufficient clarity yet to disprove their lies so they thought they would not get caught Haven't kept up with the drama in a while, but to my understanding the issue people took with the Dawn Project's initial video was not that it lacked clarity - but that it had the clarity to see that FSD was not engaged.[0] Could be explained, such as if the Dawn Project did the tests legitimately and then went back to capture footage for the ad, but I wouldn't assign so much malice ("unrepentant liars who will fabricate whatever is convenient as long as they think they can not get caught") to people pointing it out. [0]: https://electrek.co/2022/08/10/tesla-self-driving-smear-campaign-releases-test-fails-fsd-never-engaged/ https://electrek.co/2022/08/10/tesla-self-driving-smear-camp...

Veserv 3y ago
Except that it was engaged as stated in the Safety Test Report [1] and as seen in the raw footage [2]. Rather than acknowledging that a incomplete investigation with conflicting information demands waiting for confirmatory evidence such as the raw footage which would have demonstrated their assumptions on the validity of the test were false, they chose to immediately begin declaring it a smear campaign based on false tests. They are not liars because they point out FSD was not engaged in portions of the ad. They are liars because they then straight up ignored evidence to the contrary and then assert, in confidence, that the tests were certainly fabricated and that FSD would never operate as demonstrated even though the video evidence that was forthcoming proved their assertions were completely and utterly wrong. As to being unrepentant liars. Is a legitimate test demonstrating a critical safety defect in a consumer product a smear campaign? No. Have they retracted their false accusation that correctly exposing a critical safety defect is a smear campaign since they jumped the gun on their accusations before they did even a token investigation? No. Then it is a lie and they are unrepentant. As to being willing to fabricate whatever is convenient. As soon as it became clear that FSD was enabled during those tests, the party line became that the only reason it happened was because the accelerator was pressed. This is false as can be seen in the current video. Then it became the only reason it happened was because the cones prevented a swerve. This is false as can be seen in the current video. Then it became the only reason it happened was because they steered into the child. This is false as can be seen in the current video. Every single one of these accusations was made because they thought the video could not disprove it and every single one has been proven to be false once the video setup was improved so it could disprove them. The fact that people, to this day, still deliberately point back to the earliest videos because they can not find any way to lie about the current videos without getting caught is bad faith argumentation. To then argue the Dawn Project is untrustworthy because of false accusations made by liars is true grade A bad faith argumentation that needs to be nipped in the bud. [1] https://dawnproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/The_Dawn_Project___Tesla_FSD_Test__8_.pdf https://dawnproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/The_Dawn_... [2] https://dawnproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/raw-footage.mp4 https://dawnproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/raw-foota...
- Ukv 3y ago