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I didn't say he wasn't "allowed", I said it was "weird". It is weird, and potentially concerning. I don't really see how you can disagree with that. It's not

I didn't say he wasn't "allowed", I said it was "weird". It is weird, and potentially concerning. I don't really see how you can disagree with that. It's not a civilian's job to try and intervene with foreign policy. I don't know enough about law to say what he did was "legal", but assuming that it is, it's still weird. What would probably be illegal is taking money from Russian in exchange for disabling it, and then claiming it was to prevent nuclear war, which is why I think it might be worth investigating bank accounts. I'm not a lawyer, though, so it might just be "gross", and not illegal. This isn't even getting into the fact that he tweeted multiple times about how he would solve the Ukraine conflict, around the same time, basically just saying "Ukraine should surrender to Russia cuz it'll save lives". > If the Biden administration disagreed, they could have used executive power to force him to do whatever they wanted, he said as much publicly. The government has done this before in the past. The US isn't officially directly involved with the conflict so I don't actually know that they could force him. They're providing funding and the like, but I don't know that they could use any kind of wartime acts without direct involvement into the war. I know he says that the Biden administration could force it, but, for the millionth time, he lies an awful lot, and never takes responsibility for anything, so it's hard to know if that's actually true.

inemesitaffia 3y ago
You do realize he intervened by sending the equipment in the first place? And the Biden government refused to derisk things for him?
misiti3780 3y ago
So, just so we are clear, your stance is the following: You can't believe anything Elon says because he is a liar and lies "all the time", but you can can also accuse of being a Russian asset based on no evidence ? He didn't say surrender, he said negotiate a peace deal (in Istanbul), and as controversial that was a year ago, it's clear as day today that it is correct. https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-great-risk-front-line-collapse-war-russia/ https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-great-risk-front-lin... Apparently the US media convinced people like you that Ukraine could actually win the war, when common sense and basic math should have shown you there was never a chance. How many innocent Ukraine were sent to the death as cannon fodder, we will never know. Musk stance was right about Ukraine, we certainly know that now.
- tombert 3y ago
  I didn't "accuse" him, I said it was worth the DHS investigating. I think you understand that and are pretending not to. I feel like if I actively tried to hinder a war effort from either side, it would probably be a good idea for the DHS to investigate me. I really don't think that would be controversial either. It's not an "accusation" to investigate someone for doing something weird. >based on no evidence An investigation is a process in which evidence is gathered. > You can't believe anything Elon says because he is a liar and lies "all the time The liar part doesn't really need me to document it, you can look at nearly any keynote he's given and see a million cases where he just makes shit up. The easiest example is him talking about when self-driving cars are going to be here, or when he says "this is something we can do now". ETA: It's kind of uncool to add multiple paragraphs of extra text without disclosing it. > Apparently the US media convinced people like you that Ukraine could actually win the war, What in the fuck are you actually talking about? It's not about "winning" or "losing", where did I say that it was about Ukraine "winning" anything? I said it was very concerning that a civilian decided to intervene in a war effort. This isn't hard, and what you're saying is verging on dishonesty, I think because you're having trouble trying to figure out justification for Elon's actions.
  - misiti3780 3y ago
    Tom, some advice --- you're a partisan conspiracy theorist and dont know it. I recommend you quit following the news -- your brain is incapable of "not" connecting dots that don't exist. Just relax and enjoy life. You're probably intelligent and have a good job in tech. Be grateful. Stay away from religion -- all of them -- you will be sucked in and indoctrinated. Don't place so much faith in the US government -- it's a corrupt institution.
    - tombert 3y ago
      I don’t really know that I like the familiar tone of addressing me by my first name, but it’s not a secret so fair enough I guess. I am not religious, and I don’t typically watch the news. I do not know how I am a “partisan conspiracy theorist” because I think civilians intervening in foreign conflicts should be investigated. I “enjoy life” just fine, I am just a crazy crazy person who thinks that a single unelected person should not be attempting to unilaterally make decisions involved in regards to war. You can say something like “Tom, that’s what the US government does!” and then give me a list of articles where the US gov intervened where they shouldn’t have, but it’s not apples to apples. There’s at least an attempt at accountability for elected government officials. It’s not perfect, and I am not trying to defend awful stuff like MK Ultra, but it’s still better than being at the whim of some whiny billionaire.
Ray20 3y ago
>I don't really see how you can disagree with that. I don't really see how you can agree with that. What is the fundamental difference between a civillian and a professional politician? >basically just saying "Ukraine should surrender to Russia cuz it'll save lives". I think most Ukrainians would agree with that. There's a reason, why Zelensky banned men from leaving the country, why he conduct forced conscription and why he canceled the elections. I mean, it seems like Musk voices a rather popular point of view
- tombert 3y ago
  > I don't really see how you can agree with that. What is the fundamental difference between a civillian and a professional politician? The United States is a representational republic. We elect people to make decisions in regards to war effort, or delegate that to certain agencies. It's not the job of civilians to take this into our own hands. When civilian does try and intervene in a war effort directly, like for example turning off communication infrastructure, that's weird. I think it's worth investigating. There's no "difference" from, like, a DNA level if you're trying to get super-pedantic, but a professional politician is someone that we've elected to handle these kinds of situations. It's not the job of the world's richest human to arbitrarily insert themselves into it. > I mean, it seems like Musk voices a rather popular point of view I don't know enough about the mentalities of the Ukrainian people to say one way or another. I just thought it was weird that he started trying to intervene in the conflict and basically went public with a "compromise" that basically said to "negotiate with Russia and give them what they want".
  - Ray20 3y ago
    > The United States is a representational republic. > make decisions in regards to war effort Why is that matter? USA - is not a part of the conflict > It's not the job of civilians to take this into our own hands It is literally the job of civilians. In this war both sides forcefully conscripting civilians to conduct the war with their own hands > When civilian does try and intervene in a war effort directly, like for example turning off communication infrastructure, that's weird So you are saying that job of civilians - is to die for what the cause big politicians seems fitting them to die for, but not to try to stop this war? > but a professional politician is someone that we've elected to handle these kinds of situations. They obviously failed > I don't know enough about the mentalities of the Ukrainian people to say one way or another. Banned men's leaving, forcefull conscription and cancelled elections speaks for themselves

inemesitaffia 3y ago

You do realize he intervened by sending the equipment in the first place? And the Biden government refused to derisk things for him?

misiti3780 3y ago

So, just so we are clear, your stance is the following: You can't believe anything Elon says because he is a liar and lies "all the time", but you can can also accuse of being a Russian asset based on no evidence ? He didn't say surrender, he said negotiate a peace deal (in Istanbul), and as controversial that was a year ago, it's clear as day today that it is correct. https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-great-risk-front-line-collapse-war-russia/ https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-great-risk-front-lin... Apparently the US media convinced people like you that Ukraine could actually win the war, when common sense and basic math should have shown you there was never a chance. How many innocent Ukraine were sent to the death as cannon fodder, we will never know. Musk stance was right about Ukraine, we certainly know that now.

tombert 3y ago
I didn't "accuse" him, I said it was worth the DHS investigating. I think you understand that and are pretending not to. I feel like if I actively tried to hinder a war effort from either side, it would probably be a good idea for the DHS to investigate me. I really don't think that would be controversial either. It's not an "accusation" to investigate someone for doing something weird. >based on no evidence An investigation is a process in which evidence is gathered. > You can't believe anything Elon says because he is a liar and lies "all the time The liar part doesn't really need me to document it, you can look at nearly any keynote he's given and see a million cases where he just makes shit up. The easiest example is him talking about when self-driving cars are going to be here, or when he says "this is something we can do now". ETA: It's kind of uncool to add multiple paragraphs of extra text without disclosing it. > Apparently the US media convinced people like you that Ukraine could actually win the war, What in the fuck are you actually talking about? It's not about "winning" or "losing", where did I say that it was about Ukraine "winning" anything? I said it was very concerning that a civilian decided to intervene in a war effort. This isn't hard, and what you're saying is verging on dishonesty, I think because you're having trouble trying to figure out justification for Elon's actions.
- misiti3780 3y ago
  Tom, some advice --- you're a partisan conspiracy theorist and dont know it. I recommend you quit following the news -- your brain is incapable of "not" connecting dots that don't exist. Just relax and enjoy life. You're probably intelligent and have a good job in tech. Be grateful. Stay away from religion -- all of them -- you will be sucked in and indoctrinated. Don't place so much faith in the US government -- it's a corrupt institution.
  - tombert 3y ago
    I don’t really know that I like the familiar tone of addressing me by my first name, but it’s not a secret so fair enough I guess. I am not religious, and I don’t typically watch the news. I do not know how I am a “partisan conspiracy theorist” because I think civilians intervening in foreign conflicts should be investigated. I “enjoy life” just fine, I am just a crazy crazy person who thinks that a single unelected person should not be attempting to unilaterally make decisions involved in regards to war. You can say something like “Tom, that’s what the US government does!” and then give me a list of articles where the US gov intervened where they shouldn’t have, but it’s not apples to apples. There’s at least an attempt at accountability for elected government officials. It’s not perfect, and I am not trying to defend awful stuff like MK Ultra, but it’s still better than being at the whim of some whiny billionaire.

Ray20 3y ago

>I don't really see how you can disagree with that. I don't really see how you can agree with that. What is the fundamental difference between a civillian and a professional politician? >basically just saying "Ukraine should surrender to Russia cuz it'll save lives". I think most Ukrainians would agree with that. There's a reason, why Zelensky banned men from leaving the country, why he conduct forced conscription and why he canceled the elections. I mean, it seems like Musk voices a rather popular point of view

tombert 3y ago
> I don't really see how you can agree with that. What is the fundamental difference between a civillian and a professional politician? The United States is a representational republic. We elect people to make decisions in regards to war effort, or delegate that to certain agencies. It's not the job of civilians to take this into our own hands. When civilian does try and intervene in a war effort directly, like for example turning off communication infrastructure, that's weird. I think it's worth investigating. There's no "difference" from, like, a DNA level if you're trying to get super-pedantic, but a professional politician is someone that we've elected to handle these kinds of situations. It's not the job of the world's richest human to arbitrarily insert themselves into it. > I mean, it seems like Musk voices a rather popular point of view I don't know enough about the mentalities of the Ukrainian people to say one way or another. I just thought it was weird that he started trying to intervene in the conflict and basically went public with a "compromise" that basically said to "negotiate with Russia and give them what they want".
- Ray20 3y ago
  > The United States is a representational republic. > make decisions in regards to war effort Why is that matter? USA - is not a part of the conflict > It's not the job of civilians to take this into our own hands It is literally the job of civilians. In this war both sides forcefully conscripting civilians to conduct the war with their own hands > When civilian does try and intervene in a war effort directly, like for example turning off communication infrastructure, that's weird So you are saying that job of civilians - is to die for what the cause big politicians seems fitting them to die for, but not to try to stop this war? > but a professional politician is someone that we've elected to handle these kinds of situations. They obviously failed > I don't know enough about the mentalities of the Ukrainian people to say one way or another. Banned men's leaving, forcefull conscription and cancelled elections speaks for themselves