7 ms·

The cool thing about water is that evaporates all by itself. For free even. No electricity is required. So an alternative to making the tumble dryer "smarter"

The cool thing about water is that evaporates all by itself. For free even. No electricity is required. So an alternative to making the tumble dryer "smarter" can be to simply not use it for most of the time, thereby cutting the loss caused by "dumb" dryers. The engineering part that's missing is related to re-introducing and improving the many awesome laundry line systems that used to be available.

smegger001 2y ago
Hanging clothes on a clothes line to dry only works you dont live somewhere with frequent rain
- dartos 2y ago
  Or very high ambient humidity (which I guess causes frequent rain)
  - sroussey 2y ago
    I’ve been places where cotton never dries and becomes a fertile ground for all sorts of things.
- yorwba 2y ago
  It works just fine indoors.
- big_man_ting 2y ago
  How about you hang your clothes indoors when it's raining inside? I've been doing that for years in a rainy country in a tiny studio apartment. No issues.
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    This can cause issues with damp depending on your home and the local weather.
    - ajuc 2y ago
      The water that was in your clothes and evaporated over 12 hours at night naturally is the same water that evaporates in 1 hour in the powered dryer. If you have working ventillation you're fine either way. If not - you're not. In fact I'd expect worse problems if you evaporate that same water quicker, because there's less time for it to escape outside.
      - lolinder 2y ago
        Dryers typically are vented immediately outside via a dedicated tube and vent. That means that the air in the rest of the house never sees the moisture at all, so your whole-house ventilation system or dehumidifier doesn't need to work as hard.
        ajuc 2y ago
        Thanks, now that I think about it that makes sense :)
        CalRobert 2y ago
        Some driers, especially in Europe, condense the water in to a tank that you empty manually in to a sink. This is useful if you don't have an easy way to vent it and also shows just how much water is coming out of your clothes (multiple liters per load, sometimes!)
      - powersnail 2y ago
        Usually dryers are connected to dedicated ventilation out of the house, so the humidity doesn't transfer into your room directly. Otherwise, the laundry room would be a sauna.
      - ponector 2y ago
        If your room has already high humidity level water does evaporate really slow and the next day you get smelly clothes.
    - 2y ago
  - powersnail 2y ago
    Still dependent on the overall climate. It's not necessarily about how much it rains, but how humid the air is. When I was in Virginia, it rained a lot, but the air clears up fairly quickly after rain. In contrast, my grandmother lives in a village with such incredible rainy seasons, that this has been a pain point as perpetual as the rain itself. For a few months in summer, the air is so humid that even unused clothes have trouble stay dry. Condensation appears on the wall, and nothing ever dries, no matter where you hang them; indoors, outdoors, doesn't make a difference. Sometimes, they have no dry clothes for weeks during summer.
- ajuc 2y ago
  Where I live most people have special pulley systems in their bathrooms for drying clothes. Sth like this: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61sYCKX1U6L._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61sYCKX1U6L._AC_UF1000,1... You put your clothes there, and the next day they are dry. Other common solution is collapsible drying racks on your balcony: https://images.morele.net/i256/12998234_0_i256.jpg https://images.morele.net/i256/12998234_0_i256.jpg Or just clothes lines (but usually people have some backup in case it rains). I've never seen people use powered dryers for clothes. And we get our share of rain, and in the winter it gets to -20C sometimes.
CalRobert 2y ago
One of the issues is that tossing your stuff in the dryer is fast and easy. Hanging clothes to dry is kind of tedious. It also tends to result in crinkly clothes (especially shirts and towels). But I am curious about these laundry line systems you mention!
- smilingsun 2y ago
  Here's a great example of putting a bit of engineering into hanging clothes outdoors: https://99percentinvisible.org/article/hills-hoist-iconic-rotary-clothesline-shaped-suburban-australia/ https://99percentinvisible.org/article/hills-hoist-iconic-ro... I've seen many great things in photos where laundry lines are strapped out between windows and across streets "ad hoc". But most of them were in photos. I think the "pulley" that carries the line and the line itself seem to be more durable than what my local building market sells... I can only get nylon lines and small pulleys, so I'm not happy with the projects I've done so far. The best lines I've found are the ones with metal wire inside.. the ones without metal in them break very quickly. One that I would really like to have is a strong, durable multi-line rack that sits below a window. If possible, I'd like to be able to expand and contract it. There's also a lot of ideas shared online for creative indoor solutions. In general, Pinterest is the place to go. Indoors: https://www.houzz.com.au/magazine/designs-for-living-10-drying-rack-solutions-for-your-laundry-stsetivw-vs~26233042 https://www.houzz.com.au/magazine/designs-for-living-10-dryi... Regarding crinkly clothes: generally if you hang up a wet shirt to dry, it gets less crinkly than in a tumble drier. That's an old tip for reducing ironing efforts :) Regarding "hard" towels etc: This one is really difficult, especially terrycloth and similar material that's supposed to be very soft can seem hard after air drying. You can try to add vinegar as a softener if your water is hard, I find that makes a good improvement. And you can generally rub clothes soft - I tried folding towels and give it a good rubbing, works well to soften them up. I would also remark that after using a soft towel once and drying it, the terrycloth also becomes hard :)
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    All good points, but definitely more time consuming than "throw in dryer, take out an hour later". If you're even lazier you can get a combo washer/dryer. Not quite as effective as a separate dryer but it's nice to have dirty clothes go in and clean, dry clothes come out without a middle step.
blowski 2y ago
Many British houses are already damp and small, and heating them to dry clothes doesn’t save energy. Putting clothes outside when it’s -2 degrees or raining consistently also doesn’t help. I think I’ve seen the kinds of indoor drying lines you are perhaps referring to, but I don’t know how compatible they are with Northern Europe.
- cyberax 2y ago
  Clothes can dry just fine when it's -30C outside, especially if there's some sunlight. It's the humidity that is a problem.
- bennyhill 2y ago
  Drying in freezing temperatures actually works just fine, wet environments are really a problem though.
- ajuc 2y ago
  Dunno what counts as "Northern Europe", but in Poland nobody uses powered dryers, it's all natural. And it gets to -20 C in the winter here sometimes. Dry cold is not actually a problem for drying clothes.
  - LegitShady 2y ago
    Never heard of this. Doesn't the moisture just freeze in the clothes?
    - gspencley 2y ago
      I think that there are two assumptions that we tend to make that causes the idea of air drying frozen clothes to be unintuitive: 1. We don't expect solids to evaporate, because it's not something we notice often (though if you think about the fact that a few inches of snow can disappear in a couple of days while the temperature remains below zero Celsius, you suddenly realize that you do observe it if you live in a cold climate) 2. We're so accustomed to using heat to speed the evaporation of water. So we might assume that removing large amounts of heat energy will "stop" evaporation. Or at least cause it to slow so much that air drying becomes impractical. But ice does, indeed evaporate (to be accurate, it sublimates). My question is how temperature affects the speed of evaporation at low temperatures. How long do you need to leave your wet clothes hanging below freezing before they are dry? https://phys.org/news/2018-10-sublimation-solid-ice-quickly-evaporation.html https://phys.org/news/2018-10-sublimation-solid-ice-quickly-...
xandrius 2y ago
Really depends on a million factors. Where I grew up if you left the clothes out (but covered with inclement weather), depending on season, they would either dry perfectly or get a funky (awful) smell to them. I wish we had a drier back then, it would have made my teenage years less embarrassing.
pxc 2y ago
> The engineering part that's missing is related to re-introducing and improving the many awesome laundry line systems that used to be available. I live in a desert, and my current place has a not-tiny yard, so I'm curious about this. Anyone got examples or pictures of laundry line systems they really like?
lolinder 2y ago
> thereby cutting the loss caused by "dumb" dryers. The loss that TFA and smart dryers are trying to cut is time spent on laundry. Having lived both with and without a tumble dryer, I'm very skeptical that there's a laundry line system out there that is less time consuming than even a dumb tumble dryer. If there is one, I'd love a link!
latentcall 2y ago
We have clothes lines in our backyard and hang drying clothing is the bees knees. For one, dryers tend to ruin clothing. When I didn't know any better I'd dry black t-shirts on lowest heat setting and they're all washed out and didn't keep their color. For some items like wool underwear and t-shirts I hang inside because sun bleaching can be a problem.
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  Sun bleaches black clothing too. Plus it’s essentially 2-3 extra steps. A good quality 2 in 1 washer/dryer in a bad climate/limited space is a perfect fit for busy people.

smegger001 2y ago

Hanging clothes on a clothes line to dry only works you dont live somewhere with frequent rain

dartos 2y ago
Or very high ambient humidity (which I guess causes frequent rain)
- sroussey 2y ago
  I’ve been places where cotton never dries and becomes a fertile ground for all sorts of things.
yorwba 2y ago
It works just fine indoors.
big_man_ting 2y ago
How about you hang your clothes indoors when it's raining inside? I've been doing that for years in a rainy country in a tiny studio apartment. No issues.
- CalRobert 2y ago
  This can cause issues with damp depending on your home and the local weather.
  - ajuc 2y ago
    The water that was in your clothes and evaporated over 12 hours at night naturally is the same water that evaporates in 1 hour in the powered dryer. If you have working ventillation you're fine either way. If not - you're not. In fact I'd expect worse problems if you evaporate that same water quicker, because there's less time for it to escape outside.
    - lolinder 2y ago
      Dryers typically are vented immediately outside via a dedicated tube and vent. That means that the air in the rest of the house never sees the moisture at all, so your whole-house ventilation system or dehumidifier doesn't need to work as hard.
      - ajuc 2y ago
        Thanks, now that I think about it that makes sense :)
        CalRobert 2y ago
        Some driers, especially in Europe, condense the water in to a tank that you empty manually in to a sink. This is useful if you don't have an easy way to vent it and also shows just how much water is coming out of your clothes (multiple liters per load, sometimes!)
    - powersnail 2y ago
      Usually dryers are connected to dedicated ventilation out of the house, so the humidity doesn't transfer into your room directly. Otherwise, the laundry room would be a sauna.
    - ponector 2y ago
      If your room has already high humidity level water does evaporate really slow and the next day you get smelly clothes.
  - 2y ago
- powersnail 2y ago
  Still dependent on the overall climate. It's not necessarily about how much it rains, but how humid the air is. When I was in Virginia, it rained a lot, but the air clears up fairly quickly after rain. In contrast, my grandmother lives in a village with such incredible rainy seasons, that this has been a pain point as perpetual as the rain itself. For a few months in summer, the air is so humid that even unused clothes have trouble stay dry. Condensation appears on the wall, and nothing ever dries, no matter where you hang them; indoors, outdoors, doesn't make a difference. Sometimes, they have no dry clothes for weeks during summer.
ajuc 2y ago
Where I live most people have special pulley systems in their bathrooms for drying clothes. Sth like this: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61sYCKX1U6L._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61sYCKX1U6L._AC_UF1000,1... You put your clothes there, and the next day they are dry. Other common solution is collapsible drying racks on your balcony: https://images.morele.net/i256/12998234_0_i256.jpg https://images.morele.net/i256/12998234_0_i256.jpg Or just clothes lines (but usually people have some backup in case it rains). I've never seen people use powered dryers for clothes. And we get our share of rain, and in the winter it gets to -20C sometimes.

CalRobert 2y ago

One of the issues is that tossing your stuff in the dryer is fast and easy. Hanging clothes to dry is kind of tedious. It also tends to result in crinkly clothes (especially shirts and towels). But I am curious about these laundry line systems you mention!

smilingsun 2y ago
Here's a great example of putting a bit of engineering into hanging clothes outdoors: https://99percentinvisible.org/article/hills-hoist-iconic-rotary-clothesline-shaped-suburban-australia/ https://99percentinvisible.org/article/hills-hoist-iconic-ro... I've seen many great things in photos where laundry lines are strapped out between windows and across streets "ad hoc". But most of them were in photos. I think the "pulley" that carries the line and the line itself seem to be more durable than what my local building market sells... I can only get nylon lines and small pulleys, so I'm not happy with the projects I've done so far. The best lines I've found are the ones with metal wire inside.. the ones without metal in them break very quickly. One that I would really like to have is a strong, durable multi-line rack that sits below a window. If possible, I'd like to be able to expand and contract it. There's also a lot of ideas shared online for creative indoor solutions. In general, Pinterest is the place to go. Indoors: https://www.houzz.com.au/magazine/designs-for-living-10-drying-rack-solutions-for-your-laundry-stsetivw-vs~26233042 https://www.houzz.com.au/magazine/designs-for-living-10-dryi... Regarding crinkly clothes: generally if you hang up a wet shirt to dry, it gets less crinkly than in a tumble drier. That's an old tip for reducing ironing efforts :) Regarding "hard" towels etc: This one is really difficult, especially terrycloth and similar material that's supposed to be very soft can seem hard after air drying. You can try to add vinegar as a softener if your water is hard, I find that makes a good improvement. And you can generally rub clothes soft - I tried folding towels and give it a good rubbing, works well to soften them up. I would also remark that after using a soft towel once and drying it, the terrycloth also becomes hard :)
- CalRobert 2y ago
  All good points, but definitely more time consuming than "throw in dryer, take out an hour later". If you're even lazier you can get a combo washer/dryer. Not quite as effective as a separate dryer but it's nice to have dirty clothes go in and clean, dry clothes come out without a middle step.

blowski 2y ago

Many British houses are already damp and small, and heating them to dry clothes doesn’t save energy. Putting clothes outside when it’s -2 degrees or raining consistently also doesn’t help. I think I’ve seen the kinds of indoor drying lines you are perhaps referring to, but I don’t know how compatible they are with Northern Europe.

cyberax 2y ago
Clothes can dry just fine when it's -30C outside, especially if there's some sunlight. It's the humidity that is a problem.
bennyhill 2y ago
Drying in freezing temperatures actually works just fine, wet environments are really a problem though.
ajuc 2y ago
Dunno what counts as "Northern Europe", but in Poland nobody uses powered dryers, it's all natural. And it gets to -20 C in the winter here sometimes. Dry cold is not actually a problem for drying clothes.
- LegitShady 2y ago
  Never heard of this. Doesn't the moisture just freeze in the clothes?
  - gspencley 2y ago
    I think that there are two assumptions that we tend to make that causes the idea of air drying frozen clothes to be unintuitive: 1. We don't expect solids to evaporate, because it's not something we notice often (though if you think about the fact that a few inches of snow can disappear in a couple of days while the temperature remains below zero Celsius, you suddenly realize that you do observe it if you live in a cold climate) 2. We're so accustomed to using heat to speed the evaporation of water. So we might assume that removing large amounts of heat energy will "stop" evaporation. Or at least cause it to slow so much that air drying becomes impractical. But ice does, indeed evaporate (to be accurate, it sublimates). My question is how temperature affects the speed of evaporation at low temperatures. How long do you need to leave your wet clothes hanging below freezing before they are dry? https://phys.org/news/2018-10-sublimation-solid-ice-quickly-evaporation.html https://phys.org/news/2018-10-sublimation-solid-ice-quickly-...

xandrius 2y ago

Really depends on a million factors. Where I grew up if you left the clothes out (but covered with inclement weather), depending on season, they would either dry perfectly or get a funky (awful) smell to them. I wish we had a drier back then, it would have made my teenage years less embarrassing.

pxc 2y ago

> The engineering part that's missing is related to re-introducing and improving the many awesome laundry line systems that used to be available. I live in a desert, and my current place has a not-tiny yard, so I'm curious about this. Anyone got examples or pictures of laundry line systems they really like?

lolinder 2y ago

> thereby cutting the loss caused by "dumb" dryers. The loss that TFA and smart dryers are trying to cut is time spent on laundry. Having lived both with and without a tumble dryer, I'm very skeptical that there's a laundry line system out there that is less time consuming than even a dumb tumble dryer. If there is one, I'd love a link!

latentcall 2y ago

We have clothes lines in our backyard and hang drying clothing is the bees knees. For one, dryers tend to ruin clothing. When I didn't know any better I'd dry black t-shirts on lowest heat setting and they're all washed out and didn't keep their color. For some items like wool underwear and t-shirts I hang inside because sun bleaching can be a problem.

dzhiurgis 2y ago
Sun bleaches black clothing too. Plus it’s essentially 2-3 extra steps. A good quality 2 in 1 washer/dryer in a bad climate/limited space is a perfect fit for busy people.