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This is the reason why Chinese products are beating everyone else, and it's also a reason why we need to impose tariff on Chinese products made by workers in in

This is the reason why Chinese products are beating everyone else, and it's also a reason why we need to impose tariff on Chinese products made by workers in inhumane working conditions, e.g. 996.

dookahku 2y ago
how productive can a person bee if they wake up, immediately commute to work, labor for 12 hours(!), and then immediately commute home, sleep?
- smallmancontrov 2y ago
  Maybe a bit more, so the beatings will continue until morale improves. The accounting happens in the birth rate.
- ohnoitsahuman 2y ago
  Very. At least for the first decade. The say goodby to sanity, family, and hobbies.
  - dookahku 2y ago
    I'm dubious about this. I've worked similar schedules and I just didn't see a point in living.
  - wiseowise 2y ago
    No way this is true. Especially decade part. After a decade of such work you’ll age at least 20 years.
mostlysimilar 2y ago
> Chinese products are beating everyone else I suspect the greedy business executives in the west insisting upon a race to the bottom on cost etc. have more to do with it.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  Without a nationwide tariff to level the playing field, how do you expect a business executive to compete with other businesses?
smallmancontrov 2y ago
Yep. Labor laws that can be bypassed by outsourcing+importing are a complete joke, this was known when they were passed, and the resulting "compromise" reflects the reality of who was actually in charge. We need to fix this, but we'll have the same opponents as we had before, so it will be an uphill battle. It would be pretty funny to see Capitalist America twist Communist China's arm into un-fucking their labor relations. The irony would be palpable. Alas, this is going to be one hell of a tough sell in Capitalist America precisely because we are Capitalist.
- logicchains 2y ago
  > Labor laws that can be bypassed by outsourcing+importing are a complete joke, All labor laws can be bypassed by importing; it's a natural economic consequence of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factor_price_equalization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factor_price_equalization . Only restrictions on trade can slow the equalisation of wages across two countries.
  - smallmancontrov 2y ago
    What's wrong with restrictions on trade? Alexander Hamilton's 1791 Report on Manufactures spells out why they are so damn important, and this line of thinking ruled American policy for the next 150 years. America industrialized itself using protectionism. It's trade liberalization that is the recent anomaly, although it has now run for enough decades that its promise of "better for everyone, honest!" can be evaluated against reality. The results are in: the benefits accrued to capital, who saw a many-fold return on their assets, and the costs accrued to labor, who saw stagnant wages for decades. If you want the macroeconomics assessed in detail and the usual apologetics evaluated against evidence, I refer you to "Trade Wars are Class Wars" by Klein and Pettis.
wiseowise 2y ago
> This is the reason why Chinese products are beating everyone else Do they?
aerhardt 2y ago
It really isn’t… Chinese products are beating everyone else because their labor costs are cheaper, period. In the case of newer industries like electric cars, because they are heavily subsidized by the state. I won’t get into the debate of whether this needs to be protected against… Possibly, but a very complex topic. According to the article 996 applies mostly to software products where America is still absolute king of the hill.
ketchupdebugger 2y ago
beating everyone else to the land fill
stickfigure 2y ago
> Chinese products are beating everyone else I don't think this is true? And the trend seems to be down. Looking around me, my car, phone, home appliances, and most of my furniture were not made in China. My Macbook probably was, but I just read that Apple is moving some production to other countries (like Vietnam). A lot of random things I own like hand tools were made in China, but they tend to be relatively low-technology products commonly manufactured in many places. I could be an outlier; certainly there are many electronics items (screens, gaming devices, phones, etc) made in China. But it's not obvious that they're "beating" the competition. Would love to see meaningful statistics.

This is the reason why Chinese products are beating everyone else, and it's also a reason why we need to impose tariff on Chinese products made by workers in inhumane working conditions, e.g. 996.

dookahku 2y ago

how productive can a person bee if they wake up, immediately commute to work, labor for 12 hours(!), and then immediately commute home, sleep?

smallmancontrov 2y ago
Maybe a bit more, so the beatings will continue until morale improves. The accounting happens in the birth rate.
ohnoitsahuman 2y ago
Very. At least for the first decade. The say goodby to sanity, family, and hobbies.
- dookahku 2y ago
  I'm dubious about this. I've worked similar schedules and I just didn't see a point in living.
- wiseowise 2y ago
  No way this is true. Especially decade part. After a decade of such work you’ll age at least 20 years.

mostlysimilar 2y ago

> Chinese products are beating everyone else I suspect the greedy business executives in the west insisting upon a race to the bottom on cost etc. have more to do with it.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
Without a nationwide tariff to level the playing field, how do you expect a business executive to compete with other businesses?

smallmancontrov 2y ago

Yep. Labor laws that can be bypassed by outsourcing+importing are a complete joke, this was known when they were passed, and the resulting "compromise" reflects the reality of who was actually in charge. We need to fix this, but we'll have the same opponents as we had before, so it will be an uphill battle. It would be pretty funny to see Capitalist America twist Communist China's arm into un-fucking their labor relations. The irony would be palpable. Alas, this is going to be one hell of a tough sell in Capitalist America precisely because we are Capitalist.

logicchains 2y ago
> Labor laws that can be bypassed by outsourcing+importing are a complete joke, All labor laws can be bypassed by importing; it's a natural economic consequence of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factor_price_equalization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factor_price_equalization . Only restrictions on trade can slow the equalisation of wages across two countries.
- smallmancontrov 2y ago
  What's wrong with restrictions on trade? Alexander Hamilton's 1791 Report on Manufactures spells out why they are so damn important, and this line of thinking ruled American policy for the next 150 years. America industrialized itself using protectionism. It's trade liberalization that is the recent anomaly, although it has now run for enough decades that its promise of "better for everyone, honest!" can be evaluated against reality. The results are in: the benefits accrued to capital, who saw a many-fold return on their assets, and the costs accrued to labor, who saw stagnant wages for decades. If you want the macroeconomics assessed in detail and the usual apologetics evaluated against evidence, I refer you to "Trade Wars are Class Wars" by Klein and Pettis.

wiseowise 2y ago

> This is the reason why Chinese products are beating everyone else Do they?

aerhardt 2y ago

It really isn’t… Chinese products are beating everyone else because their labor costs are cheaper, period. In the case of newer industries like electric cars, because they are heavily subsidized by the state. I won’t get into the debate of whether this needs to be protected against… Possibly, but a very complex topic. According to the article 996 applies mostly to software products where America is still absolute king of the hill.

ketchupdebugger 2y ago

beating everyone else to the land fill

stickfigure 2y ago

> Chinese products are beating everyone else I don't think this is true? And the trend seems to be down. Looking around me, my car, phone, home appliances, and most of my furniture were not made in China. My Macbook probably was, but I just read that Apple is moving some production to other countries (like Vietnam). A lot of random things I own like hand tools were made in China, but they tend to be relatively low-technology products commonly manufactured in many places. I could be an outlier; certainly there are many electronics items (screens, gaming devices, phones, etc) made in China. But it's not obvious that they're "beating" the competition. Would love to see meaningful statistics.