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He initially said that Starlink was going to be free for Ukrainians, and then changes his mind [1]. He disabled it to (ostensibly) prevent nuclear war. I real

He initially said that Starlink was going to be free for Ukrainians, and then changes his mind [1]. He disabled it to (ostensibly) prevent nuclear war. I really don't feel that was his decision to make. It's really bizarre that anyone thinks it is. He's not a politician, he's not part of the UN, he's just a fucking businessman and a former software engineer. He does not have any credentials for war strategy, he doesn't have any experience leading a military, he doesn't know anything about politics, he doesn't know anything about foreign policy. He just decided he is going to intervene. That is weird, it's obviously weird, it's unambiguously weird, it would be weird if I did it, it would be weird if you did it, it would be weird if any civilian did it. And to be clear, he claimed it was to prevent nuclear war. As I've stated multiple times, he lies all the time. I cannot know the inner machinations of his brain, but I do think it's worth the DHS investigating to see if Russia is secretly bribing Musk. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/13/politics/elon-musk-spacex-starlink-ukraine/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/13/politics/elon-musk-spacex-sta... ETA: > Tom, stick to software and steer clear of geo-politics, it's obviously not your thing. You added this after the fact, but I feel the need to reply to it. You're absolutely right, it is really weird for software engineers to intervene in politics. I absolutely agree that civilians have no place in figuring out foreign policy. It would be extremely bizarre for a civilian to do that. I cannot think of any reason for that not to be the case. So why exactly are you defending Musk on this?

misiti3780 3y ago
What part of concept of "private" do you not understand. It's 100% his decision to make as CEO and majority owner of SpaceX. You may not agree w/ the decision, and it may not be good for the network or the company, but the decision is still his. If the Biden administration disagreed, they could have used executive power to force him to do whatever they wanted, he said as much publicly. The government has done this before in the past.
- tombert 3y ago
  I didn't say he wasn't "allowed", I said it was "weird". It is weird, and potentially concerning. I don't really see how you can disagree with that. It's not a civilian's job to try and intervene with foreign policy. I don't know enough about law to say what he did was "legal", but assuming that it is, it's still weird. What would probably be illegal is taking money from Russian in exchange for disabling it, and then claiming it was to prevent nuclear war, which is why I think it might be worth investigating bank accounts. I'm not a lawyer, though, so it might just be "gross", and not illegal. This isn't even getting into the fact that he tweeted multiple times about how he would solve the Ukraine conflict, around the same time, basically just saying "Ukraine should surrender to Russia cuz it'll save lives". > If the Biden administration disagreed, they could have used executive power to force him to do whatever they wanted, he said as much publicly. The government has done this before in the past. The US isn't officially directly involved with the conflict so I don't actually know that they could force him. They're providing funding and the like, but I don't know that they could use any kind of wartime acts without direct involvement into the war. I know he says that the Biden administration could force it, but, for the millionth time, he lies an awful lot, and never takes responsibility for anything, so it's hard to know if that's actually true.
  - inemesitaffia 3y ago
    You do realize he intervened by sending the equipment in the first place? And the Biden government refused to derisk things for him?
  - misiti3780 3y ago
    So, just so we are clear, your stance is the following: You can't believe anything Elon says because he is a liar and lies "all the time", but you can can also accuse of being a Russian asset based on no evidence ? He didn't say surrender, he said negotiate a peace deal (in Istanbul), and as controversial that was a year ago, it's clear as day today that it is correct. https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-great-risk-front-line-collapse-war-russia/ https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-great-risk-front-lin... Apparently the US media convinced people like you that Ukraine could actually win the war, when common sense and basic math should have shown you there was never a chance. How many innocent Ukraine were sent to the death as cannon fodder, we will never know. Musk stance was right about Ukraine, we certainly know that now.
    - tombert 3y ago
      I didn't "accuse" him, I said it was worth the DHS investigating. I think you understand that and are pretending not to. I feel like if I actively tried to hinder a war effort from either side, it would probably be a good idea for the DHS to investigate me. I really don't think that would be controversial either. It's not an "accusation" to investigate someone for doing something weird. >based on no evidence An investigation is a process in which evidence is gathered. > You can't believe anything Elon says because he is a liar and lies "all the time The liar part doesn't really need me to document it, you can look at nearly any keynote he's given and see a million cases where he just makes shit up. The easiest example is him talking about when self-driving cars are going to be here, or when he says "this is something we can do now". ETA: It's kind of uncool to add multiple paragraphs of extra text without disclosing it. > Apparently the US media convinced people like you that Ukraine could actually win the war, What in the fuck are you actually talking about? It's not about "winning" or "losing", where did I say that it was about Ukraine "winning" anything? I said it was very concerning that a civilian decided to intervene in a war effort. This isn't hard, and what you're saying is verging on dishonesty, I think because you're having trouble trying to figure out justification for Elon's actions.

misiti3780 3y ago

What part of concept of "private" do you not understand. It's 100% his decision to make as CEO and majority owner of SpaceX. You may not agree w/ the decision, and it may not be good for the network or the company, but the decision is still his. If the Biden administration disagreed, they could have used executive power to force him to do whatever they wanted, he said as much publicly. The government has done this before in the past.

tombert 3y ago
I didn't say he wasn't "allowed", I said it was "weird". It is weird, and potentially concerning. I don't really see how you can disagree with that. It's not a civilian's job to try and intervene with foreign policy. I don't know enough about law to say what he did was "legal", but assuming that it is, it's still weird. What would probably be illegal is taking money from Russian in exchange for disabling it, and then claiming it was to prevent nuclear war, which is why I think it might be worth investigating bank accounts. I'm not a lawyer, though, so it might just be "gross", and not illegal. This isn't even getting into the fact that he tweeted multiple times about how he would solve the Ukraine conflict, around the same time, basically just saying "Ukraine should surrender to Russia cuz it'll save lives". > If the Biden administration disagreed, they could have used executive power to force him to do whatever they wanted, he said as much publicly. The government has done this before in the past. The US isn't officially directly involved with the conflict so I don't actually know that they could force him. They're providing funding and the like, but I don't know that they could use any kind of wartime acts without direct involvement into the war. I know he says that the Biden administration could force it, but, for the millionth time, he lies an awful lot, and never takes responsibility for anything, so it's hard to know if that's actually true.
- inemesitaffia 3y ago
  You do realize he intervened by sending the equipment in the first place? And the Biden government refused to derisk things for him?
- misiti3780 3y ago
  So, just so we are clear, your stance is the following: You can't believe anything Elon says because he is a liar and lies "all the time", but you can can also accuse of being a Russian asset based on no evidence ? He didn't say surrender, he said negotiate a peace deal (in Istanbul), and as controversial that was a year ago, it's clear as day today that it is correct. https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-great-risk-front-line-collapse-war-russia/ https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-great-risk-front-lin... Apparently the US media convinced people like you that Ukraine could actually win the war, when common sense and basic math should have shown you there was never a chance. How many innocent Ukraine were sent to the death as cannon fodder, we will never know. Musk stance was right about Ukraine, we certainly know that now.
  - tombert 3y ago
    I didn't "accuse" him, I said it was worth the DHS investigating. I think you understand that and are pretending not to. I feel like if I actively tried to hinder a war effort from either side, it would probably be a good idea for the DHS to investigate me. I really don't think that would be controversial either. It's not an "accusation" to investigate someone for doing something weird. >based on no evidence An investigation is a process in which evidence is gathered. > You can't believe anything Elon says because he is a liar and lies "all the time The liar part doesn't really need me to document it, you can look at nearly any keynote he's given and see a million cases where he just makes shit up. The easiest example is him talking about when self-driving cars are going to be here, or when he says "this is something we can do now". ETA: It's kind of uncool to add multiple paragraphs of extra text without disclosing it. > Apparently the US media convinced people like you that Ukraine could actually win the war, What in the fuck are you actually talking about? It's not about "winning" or "losing", where did I say that it was about Ukraine "winning" anything? I said it was very concerning that a civilian decided to intervene in a war effort. This isn't hard, and what you're saying is verging on dishonesty, I think because you're having trouble trying to figure out justification for Elon's actions.