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> and fire hazards I’m no EV enthusiast, but this is surely anti-EV FUD. I have personally seen hundreds of fires of gas and diesel vehicles on the side of the

> and fire hazards I’m no EV enthusiast, but this is surely anti-EV FUD. I have personally seen hundreds of fires of gas and diesel vehicles on the side of the road, including having a family member’s Audi spontaneously combust while driving on the interstate last year. I’ve never personally witnessed an EV fire despite living in an area where EV/PHEVs are about 20% of the vehicles on the local roads. Are there actual reliable stats on EV vs gas+diesel fires? Carrying tens of gallons of highly flammable liquid around is surely more dangerous than any battery. A battery fire might be difficult to put out with water but the FD didn’t use water on the burning Audi either.

wakawaka28 3y ago
>I have personally seen hundreds of fires of gas and diesel vehicles on the side of the road, including having a family member’s Audi spontaneously combust while driving on the interstate last year. I'm calling bullshit on this. I have been driving for decades basically more than average and haven't even seen hundreds of accidents, much less hundreds of fires. Even if you were a truck driver on the road 8 hours a day, I would doubt this. With petrol vehicles there are no spontaneous combustion incidents. The fuels are stable under all ordinary storage conditions and only one of a handful of well-understood malfunctions can lead to fuel leaking out and catching fire. These fires usually involve an electrical issue, collision, or sabotage. A majority of car accidents involve no fires, even when fuel is somehow leaked. EV fires are dramatically worse than petrol fires. They basically cannot be extinguished. As the EVs on the road now get older and get into more accidents, they will be seen in more fires. The media and search engines are suppressing news of EV fires because it's bad for business and bad for certain politicians. >Carrying tens of gallons of highly flammable liquid around is surely more dangerous than any battery. Not really. These batteries are more stable under some conditions but can easily enter a state of thermal runaway and spew huge clouds of toxic and explosive fumes and/or burst into self-oxidizing chemical fireballs. They are basically impossible to extinguish and can reignite a month or two after the initial burn, potentially setting a whole junkyard on fire. It's far worse than gasoline or diesel, even in cases of arson.
- tatersolid 3y ago
  My “hundreds” estimate was based on seeing 1+ ICE vehicle fire per quarter for more than 50 years. I live in a major metro and did once drive for a living. And that Audi did just start burning without warning while hurtling down the highway, which I would call “spontaneous combustion”, My point was the ratio between ICE and EV fires in recent years given the ratio of such vehicles on the road. I still see ICE fires a few times per year but no EV fires. I asked for reliable stats but you replied with the same old “EV BAD FIRE!” mantra which does not seem to be supported by my own observations nor any actual statistics. FWIW, an ICE vehicle fire is extremely toxic. It’s the “rest of the car” burning rather than fuel that causes the big black clouds and black paste stuck to the road. But the fuel causes the fire to spread rapidly to the whole vehicle. I grant your assertion that most ICE fires are caused by malfunction and not collision. But I still see them burning every so often.
  - wakawaka28 3y ago
    >And that Audi did just start burning without warning while hurtling down the highway, which I would call “spontaneous combustion”, I don't think you have enough information to call it spontaneous. It could have been caused by the driver somehow. Even with an apparent cause, it would still be like 1 in a million odds to see that happen. >I asked for reliable stats but you replied with the same old “EV BAD FIRE!” mantra which does not seem to be supported by my own observations nor any actual statistics. Sorry, I don't think there are any reliable stats to be found. I know that's lame but it's not my fault. I certainly haven't found any by searching and I think that's by design. The only stuff I find is pro-EV propaganda that paints an unrealistic rosy picture of how safe they are. Some of this is because EVs are new, some is because hybrid vehicles are counted as ICE vehicles, and most importantly the same authorities that are trying to MANDATE electric vehicles cannot permit honest stats to be known. Even if EV fires are somehow more rare than ICE fires, they are each like 10x as bad. It's not an apples to apples comparison. >FWIW, an ICE vehicle fire is extremely toxic. It’s the “rest of the car” burning rather than fuel that causes the big black clouds and black paste stuck to the road. But the fuel causes the fire to spread rapidly to the whole vehicle. As bad as petrol fires are, EV fires are still worse. You're right about the fumes in a car fire are actually from burning plastic and rubber, which EVs also have. Additionally, the batteries themselves emit toxic/explosive fumes infused with cobalt and other bad shit. EV fires are way hotter than petrol fires, impossible to extinguish, and just about the most toxic thing out there. I wonder how the hell you see one car fire per quarter. I see less than one per year, and I drive like 2-3 hours per day on average. Car fires tend to be pretty spectacular so I would remember if I did see more.

wakawaka28 3y ago

>I have personally seen hundreds of fires of gas and diesel vehicles on the side of the road, including having a family member’s Audi spontaneously combust while driving on the interstate last year. I'm calling bullshit on this. I have been driving for decades basically more than average and haven't even seen hundreds of accidents, much less hundreds of fires. Even if you were a truck driver on the road 8 hours a day, I would doubt this. With petrol vehicles there are no spontaneous combustion incidents. The fuels are stable under all ordinary storage conditions and only one of a handful of well-understood malfunctions can lead to fuel leaking out and catching fire. These fires usually involve an electrical issue, collision, or sabotage. A majority of car accidents involve no fires, even when fuel is somehow leaked. EV fires are dramatically worse than petrol fires. They basically cannot be extinguished. As the EVs on the road now get older and get into more accidents, they will be seen in more fires. The media and search engines are suppressing news of EV fires because it's bad for business and bad for certain politicians. >Carrying tens of gallons of highly flammable liquid around is surely more dangerous than any battery. Not really. These batteries are more stable under some conditions but can easily enter a state of thermal runaway and spew huge clouds of toxic and explosive fumes and/or burst into self-oxidizing chemical fireballs. They are basically impossible to extinguish and can reignite a month or two after the initial burn, potentially setting a whole junkyard on fire. It's far worse than gasoline or diesel, even in cases of arson.

tatersolid 3y ago
My “hundreds” estimate was based on seeing 1+ ICE vehicle fire per quarter for more than 50 years. I live in a major metro and did once drive for a living. And that Audi did just start burning without warning while hurtling down the highway, which I would call “spontaneous combustion”, My point was the ratio between ICE and EV fires in recent years given the ratio of such vehicles on the road. I still see ICE fires a few times per year but no EV fires. I asked for reliable stats but you replied with the same old “EV BAD FIRE!” mantra which does not seem to be supported by my own observations nor any actual statistics. FWIW, an ICE vehicle fire is extremely toxic. It’s the “rest of the car” burning rather than fuel that causes the big black clouds and black paste stuck to the road. But the fuel causes the fire to spread rapidly to the whole vehicle. I grant your assertion that most ICE fires are caused by malfunction and not collision. But I still see them burning every so often.
- wakawaka28 3y ago
  >And that Audi did just start burning without warning while hurtling down the highway, which I would call “spontaneous combustion”, I don't think you have enough information to call it spontaneous. It could have been caused by the driver somehow. Even with an apparent cause, it would still be like 1 in a million odds to see that happen. >I asked for reliable stats but you replied with the same old “EV BAD FIRE!” mantra which does not seem to be supported by my own observations nor any actual statistics. Sorry, I don't think there are any reliable stats to be found. I know that's lame but it's not my fault. I certainly haven't found any by searching and I think that's by design. The only stuff I find is pro-EV propaganda that paints an unrealistic rosy picture of how safe they are. Some of this is because EVs are new, some is because hybrid vehicles are counted as ICE vehicles, and most importantly the same authorities that are trying to MANDATE electric vehicles cannot permit honest stats to be known. Even if EV fires are somehow more rare than ICE fires, they are each like 10x as bad. It's not an apples to apples comparison. >FWIW, an ICE vehicle fire is extremely toxic. It’s the “rest of the car” burning rather than fuel that causes the big black clouds and black paste stuck to the road. But the fuel causes the fire to spread rapidly to the whole vehicle. As bad as petrol fires are, EV fires are still worse. You're right about the fumes in a car fire are actually from burning plastic and rubber, which EVs also have. Additionally, the batteries themselves emit toxic/explosive fumes infused with cobalt and other bad shit. EV fires are way hotter than petrol fires, impossible to extinguish, and just about the most toxic thing out there. I wonder how the hell you see one car fire per quarter. I see less than one per year, and I drive like 2-3 hours per day on average. Car fires tend to be pretty spectacular so I would remember if I did see more.