5 ms·

A vegan diet is really not as hard as people make out to get protein from for the average person.

kelipso 3y ago
All I can think of is tofu and protein powders. Everything else, you have to eat a ton of carbs or fat to get to enough protein.
- adrian_b 3y ago
  I agree. Where I live, in Europe, tofu and protein extracts are many times more expensive than meat, e.g. 5 times more expensive than chicken breast per their protein content (chicken breast is only twice more expensive than lentils, both having the same protein content). Therefore neither tofu nor protein extracts are a rational choice for a vegan diet. I have made countless experiments in the attempt of composing a vegan diet that would not make me gain weight very rapidly and which would also be no more expensive than a meat-based diet. At the prices from here, I have found only a single solution. I make at home a special kind of bread that is highly enriched in protein, with up to 50% protein. This is made by washing away most of the starch from the dough, enriching the dough in gluten. While it is possible to extract almost pure gluten from wheat flour, the so-called "seitan", this requires more time and more water than I am willing to spend every day. For the protein-enriched bread that I make, about 5 minutes of dough washing are enough. Fungal ovalbumin would be a good alternative for this process, but I doubt that we would see it at a decent price any time soon.
  - lupire 3y ago
    The solution for that is for the government to stop preferentially subsidizing meat production.
- delecti 3y ago
  Your statement is only true accidentally. A vegan diet does tend to be lower in protein, so you'll end up eating more carbs and fat, but still getting "enough" protein because most people on a western diet get too much protein. If you're a professional athlete trying to be vegan, then sure, you'll end up with a weird diet to meet those absurd protein needs, but omnivorous professional athletes tend to have weird diets too for the same reason.
  - zer8k 3y ago
    > If you're a professional athlete trying to be vegan, then sure, you'll end up with a weird diet Professional athletes that are actually vegan are 4 sigma outliers. For most normal humans it's not possible to even be a more-that-casual athlete in any competitive sport eating plants. Animal meats contain more than just protein including things like iodine, creatine, vitamin D, etc. A quick google brings up numerous studies on the nutritional deficiencies of the typical vegan diet you would need to rely on external supplementation for. Keto diets and other fad diets are also not great for the competitive athlete. If you're vegan because you don't want to eat animals there's nothing wrong with it. When the vegans start pointing to the outliers as evidence "it can be done" it's just a deep cope to make everyone as miserable as them.
    - nicpottier 3y ago
      I'm vegan and athletic. I get about .7g/lb of protein a day which by most any measure is enough for anybody save people doing steroids. People approach veganism as "take out the meat", which leads to nutritional deficiencies. You can't do that, you basically have to reboot the way you eat. I tracked all my food for months when switching to learn what mix of foods gave me the nutrition I needed. Now it is habit and pretty easy. The only new thing I supplement with is vitamin B12 and a protein shake after workouts. (I did the protein shake before being vegan so no change there) It isn't miserable at all, we love how we eat.
    - xenospn 3y ago
      Your comment makes no sense. I know plenty of professional vegan athletes. None of them are outliers and they’re all perfectly healthy.
      - zer8k 3y ago
        Im sure they are.
- seanwilson 3y ago
  Look into beans, chickpeas, TVP (textured vegetable protein, it's processed soy), seitan (wheat based, you can make it from vital wheat gluten powder), tempeh, nuts and seeds for high protein and cheap sources (seitan and TVP in particular) that are minimally processed compared to fake meat products. Also, look into how much protein is actually recommended per day to be realistic about how much carbs and fat on top is fine to eat. It's not like people eat meat/dairy without a serving of fat and carbs next to it, so it should be fine to get some extra fat and carbs from protein sources then rebalance elsewhere on the plate. My understanding is if you eat enough calories with an okay diet without thinking about protein, you'll hit the recommended (non-athlete) amounts without trouble and will easily exceed them if you throw in a couple of high protein sources.
  - kelipso 3y ago
    I'm getting the feeling your recommended protein amount is insanely low or only for super sedentary people... From that list, only TVP, seitan, tempeh has enough protein ratio. Nuts, legumes, seeds have very low protein amounts compared to carbs/fat. You'd pretty much have to eat some kind of fermented soy product every day to get enough protein through semi-normal meals, which is workable I guess though very boring.
    - ein0p 3y ago
      The key tell with folks who don’t lift is they don’t know that to can be somewhat difficult for even a meat eating lifter to hit 2g of protein per kg of lean mass without also consuming a concentrated source like whey. All this “beans” stuff sounds pretty hilarious to me.
      - kelipso 3y ago
        Yeah when I was starting and heard about beans, legumes, nuts as good sources of protein and then actually looked at the protein ratio...I'd have to eat just a ridiculous amount to get a decent protein intake.
    - seanwilson 3y ago
- mitthrowaway2 3y ago
  Lentils are great too. What do you think protein powders are made of? Chickpeas are another delicious and inexpensive option. There's also seitan, yum.
adrian_b 3y ago
Please say how you can do that. I have heard this sentence for years, but nobody has been able to provide an example whose price was not outrageous. I suppose that this sentence is written by people who do not care whether they pay $5 or $50 for their daily food. Such people are not average people. While it is possible to compose a vegan diet with enough proteins at a reasonable cost, and I do this every day, it is really hard to avoid gaining weight, much, much harder than with a non-vegan diet, where you have access to cheap pure proteins, like chicken breast or turkey breast. Ever since I have switched to a vegan diet, a couple of years ago, I have to monitor my weight permanently and I have to take corrective actions frequently, despite the fact that I eat much less than most people are used to.
- lupire 3y ago
  Tofu. Problem solved.
  - rmvt 3y ago
    tempeh (also made of soy). rice and beans. chickpeas.
    - adrian_b 3y ago
      Lentils, chickpeas and beans are the best sources of proteins among non-processed vegetables, but they still contain too much starch and it is impossible to use them exclusively to provide enough proteins within a diet of not more than 2000 kcal/day, suitable for a sedentary life style. They are necessary for a vegan diet, but they are not sufficient. They must be combined with some other source of proteins, which must contain much methionine and which must have a better ratio between protein content and calories. The commercial protein extracts from them are much more expensive than meat, so they are a non-solution.
      - bartonfink 3y ago
        "suitable for a sedentary life style" change this.
complianceowl 3y ago
I'll stick with my rib eye.

All I can think of is tofu and protein powders. Everything else, you have to eat a ton of carbs or fat to get to enough protein.

adrian_b 3y ago
I agree. Where I live, in Europe, tofu and protein extracts are many times more expensive than meat, e.g. 5 times more expensive than chicken breast per their protein content (chicken breast is only twice more expensive than lentils, both having the same protein content). Therefore neither tofu nor protein extracts are a rational choice for a vegan diet. I have made countless experiments in the attempt of composing a vegan diet that would not make me gain weight very rapidly and which would also be no more expensive than a meat-based diet. At the prices from here, I have found only a single solution. I make at home a special kind of bread that is highly enriched in protein, with up to 50% protein. This is made by washing away most of the starch from the dough, enriching the dough in gluten. While it is possible to extract almost pure gluten from wheat flour, the so-called "seitan", this requires more time and more water than I am willing to spend every day. For the protein-enriched bread that I make, about 5 minutes of dough washing are enough. Fungal ovalbumin would be a good alternative for this process, but I doubt that we would see it at a decent price any time soon.
- lupire 3y ago
  The solution for that is for the government to stop preferentially subsidizing meat production.
delecti 3y ago
Your statement is only true accidentally. A vegan diet does tend to be lower in protein, so you'll end up eating more carbs and fat, but still getting "enough" protein because most people on a western diet get too much protein. If you're a professional athlete trying to be vegan, then sure, you'll end up with a weird diet to meet those absurd protein needs, but omnivorous professional athletes tend to have weird diets too for the same reason.
- zer8k 3y ago
  > If you're a professional athlete trying to be vegan, then sure, you'll end up with a weird diet Professional athletes that are actually vegan are 4 sigma outliers. For most normal humans it's not possible to even be a more-that-casual athlete in any competitive sport eating plants. Animal meats contain more than just protein including things like iodine, creatine, vitamin D, etc. A quick google brings up numerous studies on the nutritional deficiencies of the typical vegan diet you would need to rely on external supplementation for. Keto diets and other fad diets are also not great for the competitive athlete. If you're vegan because you don't want to eat animals there's nothing wrong with it. When the vegans start pointing to the outliers as evidence "it can be done" it's just a deep cope to make everyone as miserable as them.
  - nicpottier 3y ago
    I'm vegan and athletic. I get about .7g/lb of protein a day which by most any measure is enough for anybody save people doing steroids. People approach veganism as "take out the meat", which leads to nutritional deficiencies. You can't do that, you basically have to reboot the way you eat. I tracked all my food for months when switching to learn what mix of foods gave me the nutrition I needed. Now it is habit and pretty easy. The only new thing I supplement with is vitamin B12 and a protein shake after workouts. (I did the protein shake before being vegan so no change there) It isn't miserable at all, we love how we eat.
  - xenospn 3y ago
    Your comment makes no sense. I know plenty of professional vegan athletes. None of them are outliers and they’re all perfectly healthy.
    - zer8k 3y ago
      Im sure they are.
seanwilson 3y ago
Look into beans, chickpeas, TVP (textured vegetable protein, it's processed soy), seitan (wheat based, you can make it from vital wheat gluten powder), tempeh, nuts and seeds for high protein and cheap sources (seitan and TVP in particular) that are minimally processed compared to fake meat products. Also, look into how much protein is actually recommended per day to be realistic about how much carbs and fat on top is fine to eat. It's not like people eat meat/dairy without a serving of fat and carbs next to it, so it should be fine to get some extra fat and carbs from protein sources then rebalance elsewhere on the plate. My understanding is if you eat enough calories with an okay diet without thinking about protein, you'll hit the recommended (non-athlete) amounts without trouble and will easily exceed them if you throw in a couple of high protein sources.
- kelipso 3y ago
  I'm getting the feeling your recommended protein amount is insanely low or only for super sedentary people... From that list, only TVP, seitan, tempeh has enough protein ratio. Nuts, legumes, seeds have very low protein amounts compared to carbs/fat. You'd pretty much have to eat some kind of fermented soy product every day to get enough protein through semi-normal meals, which is workable I guess though very boring.
  - ein0p 3y ago
    The key tell with folks who don’t lift is they don’t know that to can be somewhat difficult for even a meat eating lifter to hit 2g of protein per kg of lean mass without also consuming a concentrated source like whey. All this “beans” stuff sounds pretty hilarious to me.
    - kelipso 3y ago
      Yeah when I was starting and heard about beans, legumes, nuts as good sources of protein and then actually looked at the protein ratio...I'd have to eat just a ridiculous amount to get a decent protein intake.
  - seanwilson 3y ago
mitthrowaway2 3y ago
Lentils are great too. What do you think protein powders are made of? Chickpeas are another delicious and inexpensive option. There's also seitan, yum.

adrian_b 3y ago

Please say how you can do that. I have heard this sentence for years, but nobody has been able to provide an example whose price was not outrageous. I suppose that this sentence is written by people who do not care whether they pay $5 or $50 for their daily food. Such people are not average people. While it is possible to compose a vegan diet with enough proteins at a reasonable cost, and I do this every day, it is really hard to avoid gaining weight, much, much harder than with a non-vegan diet, where you have access to cheap pure proteins, like chicken breast or turkey breast. Ever since I have switched to a vegan diet, a couple of years ago, I have to monitor my weight permanently and I have to take corrective actions frequently, despite the fact that I eat much less than most people are used to.

lupire 3y ago
Tofu. Problem solved.
- rmvt 3y ago
  tempeh (also made of soy). rice and beans. chickpeas.
  - adrian_b 3y ago
    Lentils, chickpeas and beans are the best sources of proteins among non-processed vegetables, but they still contain too much starch and it is impossible to use them exclusively to provide enough proteins within a diet of not more than 2000 kcal/day, suitable for a sedentary life style. They are necessary for a vegan diet, but they are not sufficient. They must be combined with some other source of proteins, which must contain much methionine and which must have a better ratio between protein content and calories. The commercial protein extracts from them are much more expensive than meat, so they are a non-solution.
    - bartonfink 3y ago
      "suitable for a sedentary life style" change this.

complianceowl 3y ago

I'll stick with my rib eye.