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Theres still some kinda difficult ethical problems with those. People generally want female chickens, since that's where the eggs come from (and I think there a

Theres still some kinda difficult ethical problems with those. People generally want female chickens, since that's where the eggs come from (and I think there are problems with having multiple males in a flock). Unfortunately naturally you get a 50:50 ratio of males and females in the eggs. The males are usually killed shortly after hatching. Its worth pointing out that there are methods for avoiding this, by detecting the male chicks when they're still essentially a foetus in the egg. These work so well that France, Germany and Italy banned culling chicks a few years back. Unfortunately they're more expensive than determining the chick's sex after they are hatched so other places don't do it.

nsvd 3y ago
This isn't unique to keeping backyard chickens, it's an ethical issue with factory farming as well.
- eigenket 3y ago
  Of course, I strongly agree.
Beijinger 3y ago
"The males are usually killed shortly after hatching." Not necessary. https://www.soos.org.il/ https://www.soos.org.il/
- eigenket 3y ago
  Not necessarily, but certainly usually (unless you're in France, Germany or Italy as I mentioned).
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
pookha 3y ago
Eggs aren't fertilized (no roosters :|). If you really want to get down to the ugly truth of eggs, you're essentially eating chicken menstruation...And there's no ethical problems when it's in a backyard or the chickens are free ranging. I agree that commercial poultry operations are gruesome and psychotic but that's what happens when you build these things out at scale and it's largely a result of the great-depression and the new deal machinations to end hunger. Good intentions pave the path into hell.
- eigenket 3y ago
  > And there's no ethical problems when it's in a backyard or the chickens are free ranging. I believe there are. The people buying the chickens for their lovely free range or backyard thing are specifically only buying female ones. The males get killed, usually in somewhat gruesome ways shortly after hatching. That might not be an ethical problem for you but it is for me.
  - adrian_b 3y ago
    While I agree with you, as already mentioned by other poster it is likely that the practice of killing the males will be banned in most places and it will disappear, because now there are means to detect the sex of the eggs, so the male eggs can be selected for egg consumption.
thimkerbell 3y ago
What is the cost differential?
- eigenket 3y ago
  I'm very far from qualified to talk about the economics of the egg industry but quoting from Wikipedia > On 18 July 2021, French Minister of Agriculture, Julien Denormandie, announced chick culling would be banned from 1 January 2022.[70] Both maceration and gassing will be prohibited, and the French government would grant chicken breeders subsidies of 10 million euros combined in order to acquire in-ovo sexing machines instead (leading to extra consumer costs of about 1 eurocent per box of six eggs).
Symmetry 3y ago
Are there? I think that all animal suffering is bad. And I think that in general more living creates is a moral good. But I'd argue the right to remain alive once alive only really kicks for animals that can make plans about the future. So I'd feel qualms about euthanizing a raven or parrot, but not a chicken.
- eigenket 3y ago
  I think that in the absense of a "god" to tell us, everyone has to come to their own conclusions about where they draw moral lines. For me specifically I think that being able to make plans about the future is a superficially appealing but pretty bad way to decide. For a start there are humans who (because of brain-damage or whatever) lack the ability to make meaningful plans.
Findecanor 3y ago
I thought that the traditional way, with traditional breeds of chicken, was to allow the male chicks to grow large enough to be slaughtered for their meat. Industrial farming use different breeds for egg-laying and meat, so they would find early culling more economical.
- eigenket 3y ago
  I believe that is how things traditionally were, but I think it is rather rare today. It will depend on the specific breeder what they do with them. I'm sure some smaller breeders keep the males around but this is not the case with large-scale breeders.

nsvd 3y ago

This isn't unique to keeping backyard chickens, it's an ethical issue with factory farming as well.

eigenket 3y ago
Of course, I strongly agree.

Beijinger 3y ago

"The males are usually killed shortly after hatching." Not necessary. https://www.soos.org.il/ https://www.soos.org.il/

eigenket 3y ago
Not necessarily, but certainly usually (unless you're in France, Germany or Italy as I mentioned).
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

pookha 3y ago

Eggs aren't fertilized (no roosters :|). If you really want to get down to the ugly truth of eggs, you're essentially eating chicken menstruation...And there's no ethical problems when it's in a backyard or the chickens are free ranging. I agree that commercial poultry operations are gruesome and psychotic but that's what happens when you build these things out at scale and it's largely a result of the great-depression and the new deal machinations to end hunger. Good intentions pave the path into hell.

eigenket 3y ago
> And there's no ethical problems when it's in a backyard or the chickens are free ranging. I believe there are. The people buying the chickens for their lovely free range or backyard thing are specifically only buying female ones. The males get killed, usually in somewhat gruesome ways shortly after hatching. That might not be an ethical problem for you but it is for me.
- adrian_b 3y ago
  While I agree with you, as already mentioned by other poster it is likely that the practice of killing the males will be banned in most places and it will disappear, because now there are means to detect the sex of the eggs, so the male eggs can be selected for egg consumption.

thimkerbell 3y ago

What is the cost differential?

eigenket 3y ago
I'm very far from qualified to talk about the economics of the egg industry but quoting from Wikipedia > On 18 July 2021, French Minister of Agriculture, Julien Denormandie, announced chick culling would be banned from 1 January 2022.[70] Both maceration and gassing will be prohibited, and the French government would grant chicken breeders subsidies of 10 million euros combined in order to acquire in-ovo sexing machines instead (leading to extra consumer costs of about 1 eurocent per box of six eggs).

Symmetry 3y ago

Are there? I think that all animal suffering is bad. And I think that in general more living creates is a moral good. But I'd argue the right to remain alive once alive only really kicks for animals that can make plans about the future. So I'd feel qualms about euthanizing a raven or parrot, but not a chicken.

eigenket 3y ago
I think that in the absense of a "god" to tell us, everyone has to come to their own conclusions about where they draw moral lines. For me specifically I think that being able to make plans about the future is a superficially appealing but pretty bad way to decide. For a start there are humans who (because of brain-damage or whatever) lack the ability to make meaningful plans.

Findecanor 3y ago

I thought that the traditional way, with traditional breeds of chicken, was to allow the male chicks to grow large enough to be slaughtered for their meat. Industrial farming use different breeds for egg-laying and meat, so they would find early culling more economical.

eigenket 3y ago
I believe that is how things traditionally were, but I think it is rather rare today. It will depend on the specific breeder what they do with them. I'm sure some smaller breeders keep the males around but this is not the case with large-scale breeders.