4 ms·

Okay, so they're building "safe", but "powerful" spaces with "political awareness that extends further than a simple understanding of free software liberation a

Okay, so they're building "safe", but "powerful" spaces with "political awareness that extends further than a simple understanding of free software liberation and includes solidarity against all struggles for liberation". I wouldn't be interested in joining even without this craziness, but there has to be a significant amount of people who read this stuff and think that it's at least a bit strange. I feel like I'm in some dystopian novel where everything has the opposite meaning of what it presents itself as. I wonder what the numbers are though. How many people are unaware of what this is? How many know what it is, but promote it for Machiavellian reasons? How many are too afraid to speak out? And most importantly, what will it take to free ourselves from these freedom fighters? A well organized minority will always rule a disorganized majority. I suppose some other group will have to organize around a different, but equally pragmatic set of principles?

dartos 2y ago
So you don’t like their political positions? Free software has always had a socialist bend.
- ceving 2y ago
  No Free Software is communism! Marx wrote in his [Critique of the Gotha Programme](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critique_of_the_Gotha_Programme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critique_of_the_Gotha_Programm...): [To each according to his contribution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_each_according_to_his_contribution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_each_according_to_his_contr...). The original text is: Jeder nach seinen Fähigkeiten, jedem nach seinen Bedürfnissen! This means you contribute to Free Software as much as you can and you take from Free Software as much as you need. This is the most ethical way of human coexistence.
- TylerLives 2y ago
  >So you don’t like their political positions? I don't like that they're pushing political positions on me that have nothing to do with free software, as defined by RMS . It's not unreasonable for them to want to exclude people who don't share their political views, but my hope is that another, more inclusive (in the real sense) group will outcompete them. There are many people who could make great contributions to free software, but who don't share your political views. If human flourishing is our goal, why should we not accept their contributions? The software speaks for itself. >Free software has always had a socialist bend. In what way?
  - apantel 2y ago
    RMS was politically and ideologically pushy, and an activist. The GPL is very opinionated and pushy. Its basic design was to use copyright / contract law to push an ideology on adjacent software. People who are drawn to RMS (who have actually heard him speak in his own voice) are most likely more political and ideological, and left-leaning, than the average person, whether they realize it or not, because he was those things intensely and acutely. I’m personally extremely off-put by him, and without being able to qualify exactly why, I can tell you that same part of me is off-put by socialism. RMS and socialism have the same smell. It’s the smell of only seeing the bad in so-called capitalism, capitalists, the profit motive, companies, business people, etc, when so much of the wealth of our time was produced by those very people / things. Like, wake up — the vast majority of these amazing technologies and products were developed and brought to mass market in highly-capitalist countries, largely fueled by the profit motive (though of course research institutions played a huge role). AT&T, IBM, Xerox, HP, the companies that built this world of software and hardware that RMS wants to be ‘free’, were… companies. What am I trying to say… I think most of the time it takes a company and capitalism and a profit motive to lay the golden egg, as in produce and bring to mass market an innovation that raises living standards and extends human potential. This doesn’t mean companies do no wrong. They do tremendous wrong and need to be regulated. But I think the best approach is one of embracing and reforming capitalism, rather than opposing it.
    - TylerLives 2y ago
      To me the issue isn't that they're left leaning, but that they're using free software movement to push unrelated political ideas on everyone. I have mixed feelings about GPL, but at least it's closely related to the original idea of free software, and there are other licenses. Their post is using vague language that can refer to anything. Whether they realize it or not, this is what they're doing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38279543 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38279543
    - binary132 2y ago
      Which corporation and which profit motive gave us Linux?
forgetfreeman 2y ago
Yeah folks who are willing to donate their personal time to work on projects that benefit others having political beliefs that mirror this is wild, right? Who could have possibly seen that one coming...

dartos 2y ago

So you don’t like their political positions? Free software has always had a socialist bend.

ceving 2y ago
No Free Software is communism! Marx wrote in his [Critique of the Gotha Programme](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critique_of_the_Gotha_Programme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critique_of_the_Gotha_Programm...): [To each according to his contribution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_each_according_to_his_contribution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_each_according_to_his_contr...). The original text is: Jeder nach seinen Fähigkeiten, jedem nach seinen Bedürfnissen! This means you contribute to Free Software as much as you can and you take from Free Software as much as you need. This is the most ethical way of human coexistence.
TylerLives 2y ago
>So you don’t like their political positions? I don't like that they're pushing political positions on me that have nothing to do with free software, as defined by RMS . It's not unreasonable for them to want to exclude people who don't share their political views, but my hope is that another, more inclusive (in the real sense) group will outcompete them. There are many people who could make great contributions to free software, but who don't share your political views. If human flourishing is our goal, why should we not accept their contributions? The software speaks for itself. >Free software has always had a socialist bend. In what way?
- apantel 2y ago
  RMS was politically and ideologically pushy, and an activist. The GPL is very opinionated and pushy. Its basic design was to use copyright / contract law to push an ideology on adjacent software. People who are drawn to RMS (who have actually heard him speak in his own voice) are most likely more political and ideological, and left-leaning, than the average person, whether they realize it or not, because he was those things intensely and acutely. I’m personally extremely off-put by him, and without being able to qualify exactly why, I can tell you that same part of me is off-put by socialism. RMS and socialism have the same smell. It’s the smell of only seeing the bad in so-called capitalism, capitalists, the profit motive, companies, business people, etc, when so much of the wealth of our time was produced by those very people / things. Like, wake up — the vast majority of these amazing technologies and products were developed and brought to mass market in highly-capitalist countries, largely fueled by the profit motive (though of course research institutions played a huge role). AT&T, IBM, Xerox, HP, the companies that built this world of software and hardware that RMS wants to be ‘free’, were… companies. What am I trying to say… I think most of the time it takes a company and capitalism and a profit motive to lay the golden egg, as in produce and bring to mass market an innovation that raises living standards and extends human potential. This doesn’t mean companies do no wrong. They do tremendous wrong and need to be regulated. But I think the best approach is one of embracing and reforming capitalism, rather than opposing it.
  - TylerLives 2y ago
    To me the issue isn't that they're left leaning, but that they're using free software movement to push unrelated political ideas on everyone. I have mixed feelings about GPL, but at least it's closely related to the original idea of free software, and there are other licenses. Their post is using vague language that can refer to anything. Whether they realize it or not, this is what they're doing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38279543 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38279543
  - binary132 2y ago
    Which corporation and which profit motive gave us Linux?

forgetfreeman 2y ago

Yeah folks who are willing to donate their personal time to work on projects that benefit others having political beliefs that mirror this is wild, right? Who could have possibly seen that one coming...