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Proton and Standard Notes are joining forces
- TheLoafOfBread 2y agoI wish they would rather fix their Proton Calendar app. It is really useless to have notifications coming on email as "Reminder: event starting at 6:00 PM". You know when it starts. There is a link to an event. Why also not put there title of the event?
- protonprivacy 2y agoThanks for the feedback! We released a new feature on iOS: a new calendar invite widget now shows the main event info in all emails that contain event invites. Tapping on it takes you to the Proton Calendar app directly from your inbox.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoMy guess is some kind of security/privacy angle to not leak that information (maybe to Apple, who sees the contents of push notifications?). I don’t know - just speculating.
- pivic 2y agoThis sounds like wonderful news to me. Will Standard Notes 'productivity' and/or 'professional' features (as listed on https://standardnotes.com/plans https://standardnotes.com/plans) be available for free to all paying Proton subscribers? Most importantly: when will paying Proton users be able to start using the productivity/professional features via their Proton subscription? I can't wait, which is why I'm eager to know. :-) I've waited for Proton to release a feature like this. Finally... I mean, I love Obsidian but it's not encrypted on my devices by default. Thanks!
- protonprivacy 2y agoWe're glad to hear that! We'll have more details to share soon.
- fourg 2y agoCould you just sync your markdown files with Proton Drive and point Obsidian there? I left Standard Notes mainly because I wanted to use markdown files wherever/whenever I wanted versus being locked into something difficult to move from. Was good otherwise.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- mmh0000 2y agoAfter evaluating Proton and Fastmail, I ended up in the Fastmail camp. My solution for notes is Joplin (https://joplinapp.org/ https://joplinapp.org/) + Fastmail's WebDev support. Joplin is amazing, supports arbitrary file attachments of any size, optionally encrypts every thing. Has an iOS, Andriod, Linux, Mac, and Windows app. "Just works".
- noman-land 2y agoWhy did you end up choosing Fastmail over Proton?
- 10729287 2y agoNot OP but personnaly I preferred the traditional approach of FastMail who has been in business for long time and are doing only mail while Proton seems too gimmicky to me. Coming from VPN business (and having proved not being that reliable) didn’t help. I just don’t believe their marketing, especially the CERN confusion.
- ziddoap 2y ago>Coming from VPN business (and having proved not being that reliable) didn’t help. Proton started as mail only (ProtonMail, before the rebrand), not VPN. Also, what was proven not reliable?
- 10729287 2y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28427259 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28427259
- protonmail 2y agoFirstly, yes, Proton started as an email service in 2014, and Proton VPN was added to the offer in 2017. The case shared above in fact shows that Proton's encryption provides privacy by default - none of the user's emails could be shared with law enforcement despite the data request which we had no legal grounds to contest. Of course, as any other legally operating company, we have to comply with the local law enforcement. The privacy we provide is reflected in not having access to the data to share with law enforcement, not in refusing to comply (which is not possible for anyone operating legally).
- bananapub 2y agogreat, I was just hoping for one of the few secure email services to massively expand it's attack surface.
- protonprivacy 2y agoFrom that perspective, we would prefer to focus efforts on securing the Proton account as much as possible. There are two actions the user can already take. First, enabling 2FA will take the risk of compromise down to almost zero (our data on compromised accounts supports this also). Proton Sentinel also helps to protect against account takeovers even when an attacker has stolen your password: https://proton.me/blog/sentinel-high-security-program https://proton.me/blog/sentinel-high-security-program
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoThis doesn’t seem like a response to the point that was being made. This feels like an AI-generated comment.
- protonprivacy 2y agoHi there, this is not an AI generated response. We are replying to the comment on attack surfaces, and how our focus is on securing a single Proton account by enabling 2FA and Proton Sentinel rather having to manage security for multiple accounts.
- j-bos 2y agoPlease speak to your superiors and let them know that this corporate style rings poorly on hackernews. See if they can at least let you speak more personally, less press release. It may go a long way towards improving perceptions here. Or at least credibility.
- unethical_ban 2y agoI'll cut the corporate account some slack; the parent commenter's criticism is sarcastic and a straw man. I got the point of the proton account politely saying "we secure the account holistically and having an additional product is not an expansion of attack surface".
- ciwchris 2y agoI was a paying user to both Standard Notes and Proton. I, however, moved away from Standard Notes and my subscription renewed without notice. I contacted them and they reversed the transaction without hassle. I continue to pay for Proton. Depending on how the products are incorporated I can see myself moving back to Standard Notes.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- butz 2y agoI have a feeling that Proton has too many different products, and inevitably, like their greatest competitor, the google, they will be forced to wind some of them down. And that will make some users mad. Proton Drive still does not have an option to sync files from Linux with no ETA. Introducing new products and not caring about existing products sure shows company's nearsightedness. And even if I am paying customer, they are still pestering me with upsell promotions, to use their other products that I have no interest in.
- esafak 2y agoProvide feedback here: https://protonmail.uservoice.com/forums/932839-proton-drive https://protonmail.uservoice.com/forums/932839-proton-drive
- butz 2y agoSo, "Linux Client" for Proton Drive is 2nd most voted request. I need to log in to vote. Guess what are two top options to login... Facebook and Google. This is really sad.
- ivan_gammel 2y agoI don’t really understand the point of your comment. Uservoice is a 3rd party SaaS. You can use email/password login there. What do you expect and why it is sad?
- esafak 2y agoWhat would you have preferred?
- neonnomad 2y agoI'm not sure why you think this just because they don't support Linux yet. They have a few core key products such as Mail, Calendar, Drive, VPN and Pass. All of these are great for a Google Workspace convert. Adding Notes to that makes perfect sense as I want my Notes secured end to end and as a Voyager subscriber I'm really happy they are going down this path and it seems right in their wheelhouse. To address your Proton Drive comment directly, they are a small team and they are rolling out Web, iOS, Android, Windows and Mac. The most common platforms today which is what they should focus on. Android already has photo backup, iOS it's in beta. They are continually having new releases for all of these products and you can see that on /r/ProtonDrive. Saying they have abandoned these products or don't care about them is hyperbole. Is it taking longer than I would like, sure, do I want them to release a Public API for Drive (for rclone) and a Linux client, absolutely but lets give teams the benefit of the doubt.
- arrosenberg 2y agoJust don't raise prices. I'm only paying for secure email, I don't want or use any of the extra apps.
- protonprivacy 2y agoPrices are not changing, and if you have a current subscription to Standard Notes, it will continue to be honored.
- mark_l_watson 2y agoGood to know but I have a suggestion: wait until the service is actually available under my Proton paid for plan, then advertise it.
- unethical_ban 2y agoThis is a blog/PR announcement. They don't advertise it on their front page as a feature yet.
- Night_Thastus 2y agoThe price is quite reasonable too if that's all you want. With a yearly, I'm at about $4.3 per month. They really try to hide the "just email" option these days and want everyone on the big full package. But nope, I just like my e-mail!
- protonmail 2y agoHi! Note that it's not hidden, Proton Mail Plus is listed quite clearly on our Pricing page, along with Free, Unlimited and Family plans: https://proton.me/mail/pricing https://proton.me/mail/pricing
- aftergibson 2y agoHopefully they can turn Standard Notes into a product I’d be willing to return to. I like the company ethos, but the product was too clunky. The configurable editors all seemed to be of a poorer quality than opinionated competitors.
- jamesgeck0 2y agoYeah, a lot of the editors were just open source editing widgets dropped in, often without a serious effort to make sure the interface or rendered documents matched the rest of the application. I'd love an editor on par with what Obsidian has, but all the editors were so clunky that I stuck to plain text for almost my entire vault. The floating "close keyboard" button creates situations on iOS that make it impossible to select particular bits of text sometimes. It makes me strongly suspect they aren't seriously dogfooding their own application.
- protonmail 2y agoThe close button was implemented to provide a way of dismissing the keyboard for plain text notes on iOS. Unfortunately, it does obscure a portion of the note. We'll be looking into improving this behavior in the future.
- gentleman11 2y agoI rather like standard notes, personally. I also enjoy obsidian
- focusedone 2y agoInteresting - I've used Standard Notes since 2019 and, more recently, become a Proton user. Both products have a similar, well designed, feel and make encryption easier to daily drive. SN in particular is just a really well-designed notes app. After being burned by acquisitions in the past, I sincerely hope we see both products improve each other.
- nrml_amnt 2y agoWe have the same timeline and general opinion — BUT SN has shown several serious bugs over the years … one of which locked me out of my account at a very inconvenient time, and support was responsive but ultimately could not help. Another thing I’ve seen is a password-protected file will display its contents for 1 or 2 seconds before being obscured and asking for a password. These have given me pause as to the robustness of the security of SN. Hopefully Proton can put some attention to these issues.
- protonmail 2y agoHi! Can you email Standard Notes again at help@standardnotes.com for the latter issue about a password-protected file remaining open for a few seconds?
- ivan_gammel 2y agoThis is great news, I’d love to see it included in paid subscriptions. I think Proton does the right thing building fully functional alternative to Google/Microsoft/Apple apps. People like me don’t want to spread the butter over a dozen of different vendors, but at the same time paying for this type of service to a hardware or advertising firm doesn’t make sense. Neither I want my data to be managed by US-based company, so it’s quite a natural choice. That said, I hope Proton will find the right balance between cost of subscription and investment in R&D. Sometimes it feels like they are not moving fast enough - as much as I’d love to start using Calendar or Drive, they are just not usable yet.
- protonmail 2y agoThank you for your feedback! Please make sure to vote for your favorite feature requests for Proton Drive and Proton Calendar here: https://protonmail.uservoice.com/ https://protonmail.uservoice.com/, so we can make them as useful to you as we can.
- 35803288 2y agoI can’t stand this ambiguous language, what does “join” even mean? Can’t they just write “Proton buys 100% of Standard Notes”?
- abnercoimbre 2y agoYeah it’s weird. What are they afraid of?
- CryptoBanker 2y agoMaybe people wondering where the money came from (are there other investors now?)
- Prosammer 2y agoidk, if you think of it as two groups of people joining together to work together it's not so weird. people first vs business first maybe.
- joe5150 2y agoIt was confusing to me. I assumed it was about some kind of collaboration or integration, not an acquisition.
- RyeCombinator 2y agoDiversifying a lot. Next acquisition will be Ghost(https://ghost.org/ https://ghost.org/) I bet. Similar DNA, fits in the portfolio (If they are trying to match the feature set of Google) and have no VC backing.
- gentleman11 2y agoWouldn’t that be interesting. Snatch up a privacy friendly analytics company and some forum plugins while they’re at it to help people more easily create non-creepy online communities using their tech The all in one solution for being a good digital citizen? The world where everyone can easily have their own webpage without it being a Facebook or LinkedIn page
- bluehatbrit 2y agoThat would be very difficult. The ghost foundation's constitution specifically states the company cannot be bought or sold.
- RyeCombinator 2y agoMaybe they are okay with joining forces
- devwastaken 2y agoReminder that proton willingly cooperates with and is required by the swiss government to log and give all your activity to them. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/09/privacy-focused-protonmail-provided-a-users-ip-address-to-authorities/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/09/priva... Their email is a scam, they own all the keys and software you use to access the email.
- protonmail 2y agoThe case shared above in fact shows that Proton's encryption provides privacy by default - none of the user's emails could be shared with law enforcement despite the data request which we had no legal grounds to contest. Of course, as any other legally operating company, we have to comply with the local law enforcement. The privacy we provide is reflected in not having access to the data to share with law enforcement, not in refusing to comply (which is not possible for anyone operating legally). We also don't have access to your encryption keys - they are encrypted with your account password, which we don't have access to, and have no way to acquire.
- counterpartyrsk 2y ago'I want this product', said no paying Proton customer.
- chema 2y agoMaybe I am in the minority, but I've been a Proton user since 2016 and a paying customer since 2017 and I'm excited about this acquisition. I use AnyType for note taking, but Standard Notes is a solid alternative and I am excited to see an expanded ecosystem. Makes me very happy to keep keep paying for my $18/month Visionary plan.
- effluvium 2y agoSince proton is watching this thread...one more person saying to you proton, please stay focused on your core product. A secure mostly non-spying..., ad free, email client. However... I am happy that you're adding a note feature.