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I think it's a bit reductionist to say it's devoid of purpose and meaning. Have you asked her what she feels her purpose/meaning is? You can disagree with it (I

I think it's a bit reductionist to say it's devoid of purpose and meaning. Have you asked her what she feels her purpose/meaning is? You can disagree with it (I would as well), but I wouldn't assume she doesn't find any purpose/meaning in it. If she gets angry about it, then probably there is something deeper going on. Or, you're just asking the wrong way (if you come in assuming there's no meaning/purpose to her life, that could easily happen). If there's something deeper going on, then social media just amplifies things. Specifically about cosmetics and the beauty industry - people have complained about the effects of supermodels on TV, movies, billboards, magazine ads etc. for more than 30 years, social media has just taken it to the next level. I don't disagree with anything you said, but I do think it's important to add depth to the argument if we actually want to change the world for a better place.

noduerme 3y ago
When someone is obsessed or drugged to the point that you can't have a rational conversation and they're too angry or volatile to approach with any criticism, then it's not really your fault for coming at them the wrong way. Sometimes caring about someone means showing them that what they think they want is garbage that's hurting them. That will probably hurt their feelings, and they might lash out at you for it, but the alternative is doing nothing or enabling them and watching them drown.
- raziel2p 3y ago
  I agree with everything you wrote, but also think that if you actually care about the other person getting better, you have to be pragmatic. Set and respect your own boundaries, but tough love does not work on everyone.
- lucumo 3y ago
  > obsessed I don't know. What one person calls an obsession can easily be called a hobby by someone else. Personally, I like my little obsessions. I like them a lot better than judgemental people in my life. If someone were to start a "rational conversation" with me where they made me feel like I had to justify my "garbage obsession", well, I wouldn't want to talk to them anymore.
  - noduerme 3y ago
    I'm not saying such conversations are pleasant or make you like someone, when it's your own life or addictions or obsessions that are being criticized. But I've been on the receiving end of it and I'm willing to listen and consider someone else's perspective and whether it's true and whether I might need to look at reforming my behavior if people are telling me these things. I can deal with harshness if I believe they are the kind of person who isn't doing it to puff themselves up or make themselves feel better, but is simply giving me a cold analysis. I feel like when your reaction is to detach from that and rely on emotional arguments to say it's emotionally impossible for you to handle the person criticizing you, that's when you've crossed a Rubicon after which nothing anyone says will change your self destructive behavior. I'm saying this as someone whose two sisters both died from drug abuse in their 20s. Some people tried to reach them with empathy and others with criticism, but it's the point where someone says "I can't listen to this and I won't be subjected to this" that they become a victim in their own head of other people's harshness rather than being able to look objectively at their own state in a way that might let them change course. In other words, content is more important than style. If you turn off because of style, that's an excuse to avoid thinking about the content. The people I know who survived are the ones who didn't use the style or delivery of the criticism directed at them as an excuse to avoid thinking about and self-reflecting on the content of what was being said.
    - lucumo 3y ago
      I'm sorry that your sisters died from drug abuse. I feel for your loss, but please realise that substance abuse is not the same as losing yourself in an interest or hobby. You make the assumption that you are absolutely right about a "garbage obsessed" person. That's reasonable when it comes to substance abuse, but it's unlikely to be reasonable when it comes to an obsession. If you are not willing to consider you're wrong about the obsession, you shouldn't have the conversation. Even if you're right, a truly obsessed person is not going to listen someone who's full of their own righteousness. But chances are you're just wrong, and then the conversation is just useless. > If you turn off because of style, that's an excuse to avoid thinking about the content. It's not an excuse, it's a reason. I like my obsessions. If someone is open and willing to understand, I am willing to explain or tell. But I do not care whether or not anyone thinks it's a garbage obsession. If that's all they're willing to talk about, I see no value in having the conversation.
coldtea 3y ago
>I think it's a bit reductionist to say it's devoid of purpose and meaning Probably he is old-fashioned and means the coventional old-style purpose and meaning, that old-timey thing that we'd call "actual purpose" nowadays. Some backward people don't understand that "being isolated and doom scrolling all day" or "getting tons of destructive cosmetic surgeries" or "Amway" can also be a torally fine purpose in life.
- _heimdall 3y ago
  > Some backward people don't understand that "being isolated and doom scrolling all day" or "getting tons of destructive cosmetic surgeries" or "Amway" can also be a torally fine purpose in life. I really can't tell if this is a sarcastic comment or not, so just to be clear none of these examples are examples of purpose. How one spends their time isn't purpose, it's just a description of their day.
  - ergonaught 3y ago
    I think the main point is that it isn’t anyone else’s business how an individual chooses to spend their time. Absence some other criteria for concern, “I don’t like that they do this therefore they must stop doing it” is a line of thinking that desperately needs to be eradicated from human culture.
    - _heimdall 3y ago
      Sure, though I do also think its reasonable for those who love for someone to be concerned if someone seems depressed or similar. I didn't actually read the OP as a concern focused on what their sister does, but a concern of why she may be spending her time that way. Regardless, my point was just that doom scrolling, as an example, isn't purpose. If we're collectively losing the what the concept of purpose even is we really are in trouble.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      I think the criteria for concern is clear, and it never was about if they personally like of the activity. The concern is because they care about the person and "being isolated and doom scrolling all day" is objectively destructive and self-sabotaging. It's not a relativistic “different strokes for different folks“ and don't judge situation. Being nonjudgemental might make sense if someone you care about is at least happy, not miserable and throwing their life away.

noduerme 3y ago

When someone is obsessed or drugged to the point that you can't have a rational conversation and they're too angry or volatile to approach with any criticism, then it's not really your fault for coming at them the wrong way. Sometimes caring about someone means showing them that what they think they want is garbage that's hurting them. That will probably hurt their feelings, and they might lash out at you for it, but the alternative is doing nothing or enabling them and watching them drown.

raziel2p 3y ago
I agree with everything you wrote, but also think that if you actually care about the other person getting better, you have to be pragmatic. Set and respect your own boundaries, but tough love does not work on everyone.
lucumo 3y ago
> obsessed I don't know. What one person calls an obsession can easily be called a hobby by someone else. Personally, I like my little obsessions. I like them a lot better than judgemental people in my life. If someone were to start a "rational conversation" with me where they made me feel like I had to justify my "garbage obsession", well, I wouldn't want to talk to them anymore.
- noduerme 3y ago
  I'm not saying such conversations are pleasant or make you like someone, when it's your own life or addictions or obsessions that are being criticized. But I've been on the receiving end of it and I'm willing to listen and consider someone else's perspective and whether it's true and whether I might need to look at reforming my behavior if people are telling me these things. I can deal with harshness if I believe they are the kind of person who isn't doing it to puff themselves up or make themselves feel better, but is simply giving me a cold analysis. I feel like when your reaction is to detach from that and rely on emotional arguments to say it's emotionally impossible for you to handle the person criticizing you, that's when you've crossed a Rubicon after which nothing anyone says will change your self destructive behavior. I'm saying this as someone whose two sisters both died from drug abuse in their 20s. Some people tried to reach them with empathy and others with criticism, but it's the point where someone says "I can't listen to this and I won't be subjected to this" that they become a victim in their own head of other people's harshness rather than being able to look objectively at their own state in a way that might let them change course. In other words, content is more important than style. If you turn off because of style, that's an excuse to avoid thinking about the content. The people I know who survived are the ones who didn't use the style or delivery of the criticism directed at them as an excuse to avoid thinking about and self-reflecting on the content of what was being said.
  - lucumo 3y ago
    I'm sorry that your sisters died from drug abuse. I feel for your loss, but please realise that substance abuse is not the same as losing yourself in an interest or hobby. You make the assumption that you are absolutely right about a "garbage obsessed" person. That's reasonable when it comes to substance abuse, but it's unlikely to be reasonable when it comes to an obsession. If you are not willing to consider you're wrong about the obsession, you shouldn't have the conversation. Even if you're right, a truly obsessed person is not going to listen someone who's full of their own righteousness. But chances are you're just wrong, and then the conversation is just useless. > If you turn off because of style, that's an excuse to avoid thinking about the content. It's not an excuse, it's a reason. I like my obsessions. If someone is open and willing to understand, I am willing to explain or tell. But I do not care whether or not anyone thinks it's a garbage obsession. If that's all they're willing to talk about, I see no value in having the conversation.

coldtea 3y ago

>I think it's a bit reductionist to say it's devoid of purpose and meaning Probably he is old-fashioned and means the coventional old-style purpose and meaning, that old-timey thing that we'd call "actual purpose" nowadays. Some backward people don't understand that "being isolated and doom scrolling all day" or "getting tons of destructive cosmetic surgeries" or "Amway" can also be a torally fine purpose in life.

_heimdall 3y ago
> Some backward people don't understand that "being isolated and doom scrolling all day" or "getting tons of destructive cosmetic surgeries" or "Amway" can also be a torally fine purpose in life. I really can't tell if this is a sarcastic comment or not, so just to be clear none of these examples are examples of purpose. How one spends their time isn't purpose, it's just a description of their day.
- ergonaught 3y ago
  I think the main point is that it isn’t anyone else’s business how an individual chooses to spend their time. Absence some other criteria for concern, “I don’t like that they do this therefore they must stop doing it” is a line of thinking that desperately needs to be eradicated from human culture.
  - _heimdall 3y ago
    Sure, though I do also think its reasonable for those who love for someone to be concerned if someone seems depressed or similar. I didn't actually read the OP as a concern focused on what their sister does, but a concern of why she may be spending her time that way. Regardless, my point was just that doom scrolling, as an example, isn't purpose. If we're collectively losing the what the concept of purpose even is we really are in trouble.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    I think the criteria for concern is clear, and it never was about if they personally like of the activity. The concern is because they care about the person and "being isolated and doom scrolling all day" is objectively destructive and self-sabotaging. It's not a relativistic “different strokes for different folks“ and don't judge situation. Being nonjudgemental might make sense if someone you care about is at least happy, not miserable and throwing their life away.