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But why do you make it sound like it’s not an option to teach kids to not have fear of missing out and having meaningful ways of spending their time in the real

But why do you make it sound like it’s not an option to teach kids to not have fear of missing out and having meaningful ways of spending their time in the real, offline world? I guarantee you that there is nothing of value that other teens are saying that your own children need to be updated 24/7

gommm 3y ago
I also guarantee you that a teen who is not in the loop is much more likely to be ostracized and bullied in the offline world. So, yes you might try teaching your kid that they're not missing out that they can find more meaningful way to spend their time in the real offline world but, the fact is, they go to schools with kid who overwhelmingly are not taught that and who will dislike your kid for being different. Your kid doesn't live in isolation, he lives in society and, during school years is when social pressure to conform to the group norm is strongest. I'm speaking from experience here, I've been bullied as a teen, I definitely would rather avoid my son going through a similar experience.
- rTX5CMRXIfFG 3y ago
  Eh, that’s not necessarily true. Other kids might bully your child for having a healthy set of offline interests and for not being like them who are all plugged in online, but I don’t see how it’s not an option to teach your kids to have a strong sense of identity and not give in to peer pressure while also assuring them that you’ve always got their back. What you’re describing doesn’t sound like parenting to me, it’s giving in to peer pressure. From kids. And you’re supposed to be an adult who already knows what’s right and wrong. If your kid’s peers all gain a liking for drugs or gambling or some other vice and they bully your child for not partaking, are you going to tell your child to participate? No, what you should do is show them the right way and to what’s good for them in the long term, even if it’s difficult for them to see it now because of their youth.
  - gommm 3y ago
    I had a strong sense of identity, I had good results, a good family life, my parents had my back, etc.. That didn't stop me from being bullied or pissed on while being held down by fucking assholes. So, I'd say, you either don't know what bullying is like or you're overly naive. And by the way, having my parents having my back and telling my teachers about the bullying just made things worse. It only improved when I changed school and punched the first guy who namecalled me. Anyway, to respond to your points: > What you’re describing doesn’t sound like parenting to me, it’s giving in to peer pressure. What I'm describing is knowing how society works and planning around it. It doesn't mean that I would give unrestricted access to social medias, it also doesn't mean that I would not be there to guide my child about how to use them, what the dangers are etc... I'm saying that straight up abstinence is not a good idea and doesn't work if your child lives in a society that doesn't abstain. There are also perverse effects whereby preventing your child from completely accessing social medias, you end up with a child who just hides it from you. > If your kid’s peers all gain a liking for drugs or gambling or some other vice and they bully your child for not partaking, are you going to tell your child to participate? I'd probably consider switching my child to a different school.
    - circlefavshape 3y ago
      > It only improved when I changed school and punched the first guy who namecalled me. fwiw fighting is the only thing that mitigated bullying for me too
    - rTX5CMRXIfFG 3y ago
      > you either don't know what bullying is like or you're overly naive I was about to say teach your child self-defense and how to fight, and the last sentence of that same paragraph just proved my point. Look, as a parent, your goal should not be to teach your child how to avoid bullying. That's not within your control, nor your child, and in the real world, even once your child is grown up, there's always some moron out there in the world who's going to bully you or want to beat you up, sometimes for no reason, sometimes for not being like them. That's not an excuse to teach your child to be like other children just for the sake of conformity because that is the wrong thing to teach. You teach them how to fight back when people beat them up for being the way that they are. None of your other points matter against that.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    >What you’re describing doesn’t sound like parenting to me, it’s giving in to peer pressure. Parent, after an age, has very small influence in what kids do. Kids will be spending most of their time with peers, not with you.
  - michaelt 3y ago
    > What you’re describing doesn’t sound like parenting to me, it’s giving in to peer pressure. From kids. Are you a parent yourself? Just wondering.
  - desert_rue 3y ago
    I’d recommend listening to the Hard Fork podcast to answer some of these questions. In particular the March 22nd and 29th episodes.
  - zelphirkalt 3y ago
    Surely being a good parent and having your kid's back is very important when the kid is being bullied. I have been bullied by losers the whole school time, because of something as simple as my name and being smarter. I managed to develop a strong resistance to certain things and learned to go my own way, questioning the mainstream, including dealing with network effect and peer pressure to do things I do not want to participate in. For children in primary school it can be terrible. However, I can easily imagine, what can happen, if a parent does not support their child as much as my parents did support me. I think except for exceptionally strong independent children, there needs to be a balance in children's lives. If almost everyone in their social circles is basically telling them, that they suck, because they are out of the loop, then it needs parents to support them and make them feel that they do not suck.
  - unclebucknasty 3y ago
    You're missing the point. This is not peer pressure over what brand of jeans or shoes your kids wear. It's at the heart of socialization itself, which is an important part of growing up healthy. The analogies with drugs and gambling are also misplaced, because these things are illegal and/or generally frowned upon by parents, the legal system, and society as a whole. In other words, the exact opposite of what's happening here. And, those things are illegal/frowned-upon for reasons you respect enough to use them as examples. That fact should actually help you see the point?
raziel2p 3y ago
You seem to be ignoring the fact that people plan things in real life over the internet. Conversations started online continue IRL, and vice-versa. Social media can be really bad, and maybe it's actually mostly bad, but it does facilitate real life interactions and good things. Imagine your child going to school but not being allowed to play with other kids in recess. Lots of bullying and physical violence can happen during recess, after all. Would you use that as an opportunity to teach them the dangers of FOMO, and to just read a book?
- rTX5CMRXIfFG 3y ago
  It’s the perfect opportunity to teach them the lack of value of FOMO, especially when it’s validation from people who would bully you that you seek. I don’t see why what you’re recommending is a healthy response.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    >It’s the perfect opportunity to teach them the lack of value of FOMO Ever tried teaching anything to teenagers where their peers and society in general promote the opposite? Good luck with that...
    - short_sells_poo 3y ago
      I agree with you. It feels like some people here never interact with kids. It really is a very difficult problem to solve. You ban your kids from participating in social media, and you might end up hurting them much more by isolating them and getting them ostracized. In the end your cure ends up doing more damage than the illness would've. I absolutely agree that we should do something, and I'm trying my best. However, as long as a critical mass of young people are partaking, I cannot in good conscience force kids to stay off, because I know how bad that would make their life. So it's all about education and drilling the dangers into them as much as I can. Ultimately, this is a new world, with new rules and new dangers. The generation of millenials, boomers, etc - we are on the way out. We can advise the new generation, but they will have to find their own way to handle the dangers.
searchableguy 3y ago
Because people will not invite you if you are not in the group chat. Unfortunately, people have forgotten how to call and are afraid of receiving calls. This is more prominent among people who grew up with social media everywhere compared to ones who did not.
- JoshTriplett 3y ago
  > Unfortunately, people have forgotten how to call and are afraid of receiving calls. That's unnecessarily reductionist. Calling is less convenient and takes longer.
  - doublerabbit 3y ago
    > That's unnecessarily reductionist. Calling is less convenient and takes longer. No, I don't think so. The time for me to ring you, tell you this in voice would be far quicker than typing. Calling conveys so much more than text ever can. A call can take seconds, "hey mate, want to go to the cinema tomorrow? Ill text you the time" "yeah cool, see ya". Voice expresses emotion, you can pick up the mood of your buddy if they're up, down, need cheering up. Its real, you hear a voice and you know it's your mate. Text, you assume. Text leaves you on edge waiting for confirmation. The only inconvenience is that you could be interrupting something and even if so, then send a text.
    - JoshTriplett 3y ago
      > The time for me to ring you, tell you this in voice would be far quicker than typing. The post you I was responding to was talking about "group chat". How long would it take for you to call 6 people? How long would it take for you to text 6 people? I'm all for calls from one person to another person, if you know that person doesn't mind voice calls. Text and group chats are great for coordination of groups.
      - doublerabbit 3y ago
        Then apologies, I didn't clock on to that the discussion was regarding to group chats.
kredd 3y ago
I’m sorry for sounding so harsh, but have you been through public or private school where you’re some sort of a group of at least 50+ children? Sense of belonging is so natural, especially at that age, that you can’t tell a kid that it doesn’t matter. If your child just tells you “yeah I don’t care about others’ opinions”, then I’ll have a hard time to believe as well. As we age, and grow up, sure those things matter less. But come on, we’ve all been children, we’ve all wanted to be a part of some group. Some of us got bullied, some of us got ostracized, but we always wanted to belong.
- watwut 3y ago
  > If your child just tells you “yeah I don’t care about others’ opinions”, This usually means "my close friends and peers have same opinions as I do and nobody else matter to us".

gommm 3y ago

I also guarantee you that a teen who is not in the loop is much more likely to be ostracized and bullied in the offline world. So, yes you might try teaching your kid that they're not missing out that they can find more meaningful way to spend their time in the real offline world but, the fact is, they go to schools with kid who overwhelmingly are not taught that and who will dislike your kid for being different. Your kid doesn't live in isolation, he lives in society and, during school years is when social pressure to conform to the group norm is strongest. I'm speaking from experience here, I've been bullied as a teen, I definitely would rather avoid my son going through a similar experience.

rTX5CMRXIfFG 3y ago
Eh, that’s not necessarily true. Other kids might bully your child for having a healthy set of offline interests and for not being like them who are all plugged in online, but I don’t see how it’s not an option to teach your kids to have a strong sense of identity and not give in to peer pressure while also assuring them that you’ve always got their back. What you’re describing doesn’t sound like parenting to me, it’s giving in to peer pressure. From kids. And you’re supposed to be an adult who already knows what’s right and wrong. If your kid’s peers all gain a liking for drugs or gambling or some other vice and they bully your child for not partaking, are you going to tell your child to participate? No, what you should do is show them the right way and to what’s good for them in the long term, even if it’s difficult for them to see it now because of their youth.
- gommm 3y ago
  I had a strong sense of identity, I had good results, a good family life, my parents had my back, etc.. That didn't stop me from being bullied or pissed on while being held down by fucking assholes. So, I'd say, you either don't know what bullying is like or you're overly naive. And by the way, having my parents having my back and telling my teachers about the bullying just made things worse. It only improved when I changed school and punched the first guy who namecalled me. Anyway, to respond to your points: > What you’re describing doesn’t sound like parenting to me, it’s giving in to peer pressure. What I'm describing is knowing how society works and planning around it. It doesn't mean that I would give unrestricted access to social medias, it also doesn't mean that I would not be there to guide my child about how to use them, what the dangers are etc... I'm saying that straight up abstinence is not a good idea and doesn't work if your child lives in a society that doesn't abstain. There are also perverse effects whereby preventing your child from completely accessing social medias, you end up with a child who just hides it from you. > If your kid’s peers all gain a liking for drugs or gambling or some other vice and they bully your child for not partaking, are you going to tell your child to participate? I'd probably consider switching my child to a different school.
  - circlefavshape 3y ago
    > It only improved when I changed school and punched the first guy who namecalled me. fwiw fighting is the only thing that mitigated bullying for me too
  - rTX5CMRXIfFG 3y ago
    > you either don't know what bullying is like or you're overly naive I was about to say teach your child self-defense and how to fight, and the last sentence of that same paragraph just proved my point. Look, as a parent, your goal should not be to teach your child how to avoid bullying. That's not within your control, nor your child, and in the real world, even once your child is grown up, there's always some moron out there in the world who's going to bully you or want to beat you up, sometimes for no reason, sometimes for not being like them. That's not an excuse to teach your child to be like other children just for the sake of conformity because that is the wrong thing to teach. You teach them how to fight back when people beat them up for being the way that they are. None of your other points matter against that.
- coldtea 3y ago
  >What you’re describing doesn’t sound like parenting to me, it’s giving in to peer pressure. Parent, after an age, has very small influence in what kids do. Kids will be spending most of their time with peers, not with you.
- michaelt 3y ago
  > What you’re describing doesn’t sound like parenting to me, it’s giving in to peer pressure. From kids. Are you a parent yourself? Just wondering.
- desert_rue 3y ago
  I’d recommend listening to the Hard Fork podcast to answer some of these questions. In particular the March 22nd and 29th episodes.
- zelphirkalt 3y ago
  Surely being a good parent and having your kid's back is very important when the kid is being bullied. I have been bullied by losers the whole school time, because of something as simple as my name and being smarter. I managed to develop a strong resistance to certain things and learned to go my own way, questioning the mainstream, including dealing with network effect and peer pressure to do things I do not want to participate in. For children in primary school it can be terrible. However, I can easily imagine, what can happen, if a parent does not support their child as much as my parents did support me. I think except for exceptionally strong independent children, there needs to be a balance in children's lives. If almost everyone in their social circles is basically telling them, that they suck, because they are out of the loop, then it needs parents to support them and make them feel that they do not suck.
- unclebucknasty 3y ago
  You're missing the point. This is not peer pressure over what brand of jeans or shoes your kids wear. It's at the heart of socialization itself, which is an important part of growing up healthy. The analogies with drugs and gambling are also misplaced, because these things are illegal and/or generally frowned upon by parents, the legal system, and society as a whole. In other words, the exact opposite of what's happening here. And, those things are illegal/frowned-upon for reasons you respect enough to use them as examples. That fact should actually help you see the point?

raziel2p 3y ago

You seem to be ignoring the fact that people plan things in real life over the internet. Conversations started online continue IRL, and vice-versa. Social media can be really bad, and maybe it's actually mostly bad, but it does facilitate real life interactions and good things. Imagine your child going to school but not being allowed to play with other kids in recess. Lots of bullying and physical violence can happen during recess, after all. Would you use that as an opportunity to teach them the dangers of FOMO, and to just read a book?

rTX5CMRXIfFG 3y ago
It’s the perfect opportunity to teach them the lack of value of FOMO, especially when it’s validation from people who would bully you that you seek. I don’t see why what you’re recommending is a healthy response.
- coldtea 3y ago
  >It’s the perfect opportunity to teach them the lack of value of FOMO Ever tried teaching anything to teenagers where their peers and society in general promote the opposite? Good luck with that...
  - short_sells_poo 3y ago
    I agree with you. It feels like some people here never interact with kids. It really is a very difficult problem to solve. You ban your kids from participating in social media, and you might end up hurting them much more by isolating them and getting them ostracized. In the end your cure ends up doing more damage than the illness would've. I absolutely agree that we should do something, and I'm trying my best. However, as long as a critical mass of young people are partaking, I cannot in good conscience force kids to stay off, because I know how bad that would make their life. So it's all about education and drilling the dangers into them as much as I can. Ultimately, this is a new world, with new rules and new dangers. The generation of millenials, boomers, etc - we are on the way out. We can advise the new generation, but they will have to find their own way to handle the dangers.

searchableguy 3y ago

Because people will not invite you if you are not in the group chat. Unfortunately, people have forgotten how to call and are afraid of receiving calls. This is more prominent among people who grew up with social media everywhere compared to ones who did not.

JoshTriplett 3y ago
> Unfortunately, people have forgotten how to call and are afraid of receiving calls. That's unnecessarily reductionist. Calling is less convenient and takes longer.
- doublerabbit 3y ago
  > That's unnecessarily reductionist. Calling is less convenient and takes longer. No, I don't think so. The time for me to ring you, tell you this in voice would be far quicker than typing. Calling conveys so much more than text ever can. A call can take seconds, "hey mate, want to go to the cinema tomorrow? Ill text you the time" "yeah cool, see ya". Voice expresses emotion, you can pick up the mood of your buddy if they're up, down, need cheering up. Its real, you hear a voice and you know it's your mate. Text, you assume. Text leaves you on edge waiting for confirmation. The only inconvenience is that you could be interrupting something and even if so, then send a text.
  - JoshTriplett 3y ago
    > The time for me to ring you, tell you this in voice would be far quicker than typing. The post you I was responding to was talking about "group chat". How long would it take for you to call 6 people? How long would it take for you to text 6 people? I'm all for calls from one person to another person, if you know that person doesn't mind voice calls. Text and group chats are great for coordination of groups.
    - doublerabbit 3y ago
      Then apologies, I didn't clock on to that the discussion was regarding to group chats.

kredd 3y ago

I’m sorry for sounding so harsh, but have you been through public or private school where you’re some sort of a group of at least 50+ children? Sense of belonging is so natural, especially at that age, that you can’t tell a kid that it doesn’t matter. If your child just tells you “yeah I don’t care about others’ opinions”, then I’ll have a hard time to believe as well. As we age, and grow up, sure those things matter less. But come on, we’ve all been children, we’ve all wanted to be a part of some group. Some of us got bullied, some of us got ostracized, but we always wanted to belong.

watwut 3y ago
> If your child just tells you “yeah I don’t care about others’ opinions”, This usually means "my close friends and peers have same opinions as I do and nobody else matter to us".