5 ms·

Ways of Seeing: Nicholson Baker learns to draw

110 points by benbreen 3y ago

greenie_beans 3y ago
his interview on otherppl is good too: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3Ipny0XxrVKKwj4BKbTpIp?si=9c91e0582a9d43b8 https://open.spotify.com/episode/3Ipny0XxrVKKwj4BKbTpIp?si=9... i love how his speaking style in that interview is like his stories, meandering tangents and fascinating
- tambourine_man 3y ago
  If you don’t like Spotify: https://www.otherppl.com/ https://www.otherppl.com/
  - greenie_beans 3y ago
    thanks for doing the hard work for everybody :p
Jun8 3y ago
I think Baker would like - no, love - HN! Right now an essay on him is sharing the front page with 2-axis light positioners (whatever the heck those are), cow magnets, secrets rooms in train stations, and a CLI switch to DOS that printed “I love sex” continually on the screen. So meta, you can’t make this up. This is why HN is so unique among all other places I frequent(ed) and why I love it. Maybe he is a HN lurker. The Fermata is his only book I’ve read, it was very interesting. You can see that has put a lot of thought into the idea of what you can do if you can stop time for everyone else.
- blueboo 3y ago
  I suspect you’re right. The Mezzanine and Human Smoke were two of my most impactful reading experiences. Mutually, totally orthogonal and yet both speak to the unbelievable cardinality of complexity in real life
Snigelmannen 3y ago
As someone that has started to draw from scratch five months ago, I was disappointed by this book. It was basically not much more than a show and tell of pictures he mostly traced of photos and then shaded in pencil in or painted, and a naming of tutorials he watched and classes attended. I would have hoped for something a little less prosaic. There is a lot to talk about regarding the magic of learning to draw (including the fact that anyone can do it, and ruminations on the basic division between observational atelier style drawing vs constructive drawing), and the author completely avoids the thing that is the most brain expanding and thrilling part of drawing which is learning to draw from imagination rather than copying or tracing photos. This is 100% a learnable skill, and it is very addictive when you first start to see things on paper that you had in your head.
- greenie_beans 3y ago
  i haven't read the book, but i'm a fan of his fiction. while listening to one of his interviews about the drawing book, several times i thought, "is this supposed to be a metaphor for writing?" because the idea could've been applied to writing. with that idea in your mind, does the book still suck?
  - Snigelmannen 3y ago
    I don't really know how one would be able to learn very much about writing from this book other in the basic sense of "hey: creative things can be a fun pastime, and can be relaxing if you are feeling burnt out".
- melling 3y ago
  Where do I start?
  - chefandy 3y ago
    Learning to draw? If you have access to LinkedIn Learning (often available through public libraries if you don't have a premium account) all of the fundamental art courses there are absolutely fantastic. I'm an art school guy and while there's obviously a ton of value in getting personalized critique and tailored assignments from professors, the breadth, quality, and format of the LinkedIn Learning (formerly Lynda.com) material-- from drawing, to watercolor work, to graphic design, to character design, to photography-- is truly exceptional. If you're savvy, you can probably get ahold of the course books for the self-paced "Famous Artists School" courses from the 50s. They later became the "Art Instruction Schools" courses that had the commercials with that dorky guy saying "Do you like to draw, or paint, or maybe just sketch and doodle?" It was created by Norman Rockwell and Albert Dorne specifically to guide people to teach themselves how to draw. You obviously can't get the mail-in critique, but if you have the discipline to do all of the exercises, you'll still do well.
kcaran 3y ago
"Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" by Betty Edwards is one of the most important books I've ever read, because it taught me why I couldn't (and still really can't) draw. Read that first, then you can take any course online or offline that you wish to practice. I did like drawabox but it teaches a specific method and style. It isn't the only way to get better.

110 points by benbreen 3y ago

his interview on otherppl is good too: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3Ipny0XxrVKKwj4BKbTpIp?si=9c91e0582a9d43b8 https://open.spotify.com/episode/3Ipny0XxrVKKwj4BKbTpIp?si=9... i love how his speaking style in that interview is like his stories, meandering tangents and fascinating

tambourine_man 3y ago
If you don’t like Spotify: https://www.otherppl.com/ https://www.otherppl.com/
- greenie_beans 3y ago
  thanks for doing the hard work for everybody :p

Jun8 3y ago

I think Baker would like - no, love - HN! Right now an essay on him is sharing the front page with 2-axis light positioners (whatever the heck those are), cow magnets, secrets rooms in train stations, and a CLI switch to DOS that printed “I love sex” continually on the screen. So meta, you can’t make this up. This is why HN is so unique among all other places I frequent(ed) and why I love it. Maybe he is a HN lurker. The Fermata is his only book I’ve read, it was very interesting. You can see that has put a lot of thought into the idea of what you can do if you can stop time for everyone else.

blueboo 3y ago
I suspect you’re right. The Mezzanine and Human Smoke were two of my most impactful reading experiences. Mutually, totally orthogonal and yet both speak to the unbelievable cardinality of complexity in real life

Snigelmannen 3y ago

As someone that has started to draw from scratch five months ago, I was disappointed by this book. It was basically not much more than a show and tell of pictures he mostly traced of photos and then shaded in pencil in or painted, and a naming of tutorials he watched and classes attended. I would have hoped for something a little less prosaic. There is a lot to talk about regarding the magic of learning to draw (including the fact that anyone can do it, and ruminations on the basic division between observational atelier style drawing vs constructive drawing), and the author completely avoids the thing that is the most brain expanding and thrilling part of drawing which is learning to draw from imagination rather than copying or tracing photos. This is 100% a learnable skill, and it is very addictive when you first start to see things on paper that you had in your head.

greenie_beans 3y ago
i haven't read the book, but i'm a fan of his fiction. while listening to one of his interviews about the drawing book, several times i thought, "is this supposed to be a metaphor for writing?" because the idea could've been applied to writing. with that idea in your mind, does the book still suck?
- Snigelmannen 3y ago
  I don't really know how one would be able to learn very much about writing from this book other in the basic sense of "hey: creative things can be a fun pastime, and can be relaxing if you are feeling burnt out".
melling 3y ago
Where do I start?
- chefandy 3y ago
  Learning to draw? If you have access to LinkedIn Learning (often available through public libraries if you don't have a premium account) all of the fundamental art courses there are absolutely fantastic. I'm an art school guy and while there's obviously a ton of value in getting personalized critique and tailored assignments from professors, the breadth, quality, and format of the LinkedIn Learning (formerly Lynda.com) material-- from drawing, to watercolor work, to graphic design, to character design, to photography-- is truly exceptional. If you're savvy, you can probably get ahold of the course books for the self-paced "Famous Artists School" courses from the 50s. They later became the "Art Instruction Schools" courses that had the commercials with that dorky guy saying "Do you like to draw, or paint, or maybe just sketch and doodle?" It was created by Norman Rockwell and Albert Dorne specifically to guide people to teach themselves how to draw. You obviously can't get the mail-in critique, but if you have the discipline to do all of the exercises, you'll still do well.

kcaran 3y ago

"Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" by Betty Edwards is one of the most important books I've ever read, because it taught me why I couldn't (and still really can't) draw. Read that first, then you can take any course online or offline that you wish to practice. I did like drawabox but it teaches a specific method and style. It isn't the only way to get better.