3 ms·

I don't get how phones became acceptable in schools. Imagine bringing a GameBoy into class in the 90s. It'd be taken away instantly.

asciimov 3y ago
Helicopter parents and PTA Karens that just have to be able to connect to their kids at all hours. But also, 80s/90s stranger danger and all the school shootings.
- etrautmann 3y ago
  Yeah - it pains me to say this is exactly right. Security concerns trump rationality too often.
- miki123211 3y ago
  Stranger danger and school shootings never really happened outside the U.S., and this is not an America-specific problem. I think phones got through the "back door". When the first cell phones came around, not many kids took them to school, but the only thing they could actually use them for was contacting their friends/parents during breaks, so there was no reason to ban them. A Gameboy was specifically an entertainment device, an old cell phone was more like a flashlight or a watch, something which could presumably be used as a toy, but usually was not. Then, cell phones got cheaper, more kids got them, but they also got more advanced. In the feature phone era, a lot of kids had phones already, but the balance of genuine communication versus amusement was still leaning towards communication. This changed very rapidly, and at a time where phones in schools were already ubiquitous, though their use in class might not have been.
  - nerdponx 3y ago
    Plenty of kids in high school were BBM/texting during class on their flip phones, Sidekicks, etc. They were told not to do it, but they did it anyway under the desk. Only a handful of strong-willed teachers actually took the phones away. However none of the younger kids did that kind of thing.
andrepd 3y ago
I always brought my gameboy to school, just never in class obviously (and the times I did it and got caught it obviously got confiscated for a while).
Nevermark 3y ago
As co-parents with different homes in nearby towns, being able to coordinate with each other and our multiple children at multiple schools in real time became indispensable. The kids also used their phones constructively, for assignments, tracking school progress, Youtube how-to videos, contact with cousins, etc. They had social media accounts but they never became a focus. At school they kept their phones on silent and in their bags. -- Fortunately three insights helped us: 1. Casual addiction is the intersection of two problems: an unhealthy addictive thing, and a lack of engaging or planned healthier alternatives. Solve either one! But the latter problem is far tractable than the former. 2. There are only so many hours in a day, so solutions to the latter problem usually have a low complexity bound. 3. Social media isn't that rewarding for kids, once they have voluntarily invested their interest in longer term activities and challenges. Doom scrolling notably lacks any verifiable feeling of progress. So solutions are pretty robust to ups and downs. We kept our kids lives full of physical and real world social activities, family outings, social events at home, regularly eating times for talking and bonding, regular homework times, etc.
- xeromal 3y ago
  Flip phones are fine at communicating over SMS or phone calls. That's realtime enough for anything
  - Nevermark 3y ago
    Like a lot of dead simple solutions, it throws out a lot of benefits and solutions for other important problems to solve one problem. But if it works for you, that's great.
- slily 3y ago
  We used to have computers in schools, on which we did all the things you present as requiring a cell phone to do, only without the persistent Internet access. Somehow we survived.
  - Nevermark 3y ago
    Last time I checked, a kid in a car can't download an assignment they forgot to bring, check their grades, or submit an assignment electronically, to a school computer when away from school at a friends house, a second parents house, or on a trip a family trip, without a mobile device. Many people are more mobile now. And schools are increasingly supporting remote access and activities. It is especially fantastic for multi-home families where whatever a kids needs is often somewhere else. > Somehow we survived. This phrase is used a lot, but I seldom find it persuasive. We survived without tools that didn't exist in large part because they didn't exist for other people too. But when they arrive, and become popular, they change the balance of other things, whether any individual wants them to or not. Sometimes they are so popular and useful, they raise the baseline of what people need.
Aerroon 3y ago
I don't understand how people aren't differentiating between bringing a phone with you into class and actually using it on class. I find it absolutely ridiculous that anybody would even suggest that kids shouldn't be allowed to have a phone at school. Equally, I don't understand how having a phone at school is a problem during class. Of course you aren't allowed to use your phone during class unless given explicit permission. If you do it your phone gets confiscated. You get it back after class. If it happens too often your behavior grade gets marked down. And if a kid uses a phone during a test then that's just cheating and they get an F.

asciimov 3y ago

Helicopter parents and PTA Karens that just have to be able to connect to their kids at all hours. But also, 80s/90s stranger danger and all the school shootings.

etrautmann 3y ago
Yeah - it pains me to say this is exactly right. Security concerns trump rationality too often.
miki123211 3y ago
Stranger danger and school shootings never really happened outside the U.S., and this is not an America-specific problem. I think phones got through the "back door". When the first cell phones came around, not many kids took them to school, but the only thing they could actually use them for was contacting their friends/parents during breaks, so there was no reason to ban them. A Gameboy was specifically an entertainment device, an old cell phone was more like a flashlight or a watch, something which could presumably be used as a toy, but usually was not. Then, cell phones got cheaper, more kids got them, but they also got more advanced. In the feature phone era, a lot of kids had phones already, but the balance of genuine communication versus amusement was still leaning towards communication. This changed very rapidly, and at a time where phones in schools were already ubiquitous, though their use in class might not have been.
- nerdponx 3y ago
  Plenty of kids in high school were BBM/texting during class on their flip phones, Sidekicks, etc. They were told not to do it, but they did it anyway under the desk. Only a handful of strong-willed teachers actually took the phones away. However none of the younger kids did that kind of thing.

andrepd 3y ago

I always brought my gameboy to school, just never in class obviously (and the times I did it and got caught it obviously got confiscated for a while).

Nevermark 3y ago

As co-parents with different homes in nearby towns, being able to coordinate with each other and our multiple children at multiple schools in real time became indispensable. The kids also used their phones constructively, for assignments, tracking school progress, Youtube how-to videos, contact with cousins, etc. They had social media accounts but they never became a focus. At school they kept their phones on silent and in their bags. -- Fortunately three insights helped us: 1. Casual addiction is the intersection of two problems: an unhealthy addictive thing, and a lack of engaging or planned healthier alternatives. Solve either one! But the latter problem is far tractable than the former. 2. There are only so many hours in a day, so solutions to the latter problem usually have a low complexity bound. 3. Social media isn't that rewarding for kids, once they have voluntarily invested their interest in longer term activities and challenges. Doom scrolling notably lacks any verifiable feeling of progress. So solutions are pretty robust to ups and downs. We kept our kids lives full of physical and real world social activities, family outings, social events at home, regularly eating times for talking and bonding, regular homework times, etc.

xeromal 3y ago
Flip phones are fine at communicating over SMS or phone calls. That's realtime enough for anything
- Nevermark 3y ago
  Like a lot of dead simple solutions, it throws out a lot of benefits and solutions for other important problems to solve one problem. But if it works for you, that's great.
slily 3y ago
We used to have computers in schools, on which we did all the things you present as requiring a cell phone to do, only without the persistent Internet access. Somehow we survived.
- Nevermark 3y ago
  Last time I checked, a kid in a car can't download an assignment they forgot to bring, check their grades, or submit an assignment electronically, to a school computer when away from school at a friends house, a second parents house, or on a trip a family trip, without a mobile device. Many people are more mobile now. And schools are increasingly supporting remote access and activities. It is especially fantastic for multi-home families where whatever a kids needs is often somewhere else. > Somehow we survived. This phrase is used a lot, but I seldom find it persuasive. We survived without tools that didn't exist in large part because they didn't exist for other people too. But when they arrive, and become popular, they change the balance of other things, whether any individual wants them to or not. Sometimes they are so popular and useful, they raise the baseline of what people need.

Aerroon 3y ago

I don't understand how people aren't differentiating between bringing a phone with you into class and actually using it on class. I find it absolutely ridiculous that anybody would even suggest that kids shouldn't be allowed to have a phone at school. Equally, I don't understand how having a phone at school is a problem during class. Of course you aren't allowed to use your phone during class unless given explicit permission. If you do it your phone gets confiscated. You get it back after class. If it happens too often your behavior grade gets marked down. And if a kid uses a phone during a test then that's just cheating and they get an F.