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Jonathan Haidt, the author of this article, was on Real Time w Bill Maher recently, and has some simple recommendations with respect to phones and social media:
by hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Jonathan Haidt, the author of this article, was on Real Time w Bill Maher recently, and has some simple recommendations with respect to phones and social media:
1. No smartphones for kids before high school — give them only flip phones in middle school.
2. No social media before age 16.
3. Make schools phone-free, by putting devices in phone lockers or Yondr pouches.
4. Give kids far more free play and independence, including more and better recess.
I can't argue with any of the above.
- cedws 3y agoWhy 16 specifically? Apparently the brain doesn't stop developing until much later, around 25.
- verall 3y agoThe brain never stops developing, why 25? Where does everyone get this darn 25 is when you're grown number from?
- cedws 3y agoThe commonly cited number refers to when the brain structures stop/slow development, not the halting of skills or knowledge growth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_brain_development_timeline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_brain_development_timeli...
- verall 3y agoLiterally from that wiki article: > There is no actual evidence suggesting that impulse control only finishes developing in humans in the twenties. It is a common misconception in popular psychology that the brain only fully develops by 25.[13] This may stem from a misinterpretation or oversimplification of studies which determined that development of the prefrontal cortex continues into the mid-twenties
- cedws 3y agoYes, I read it. The sentence before seems to imply that there is some change of rate of development around that age: >Human brain maturation continues to around 20[10] to 25[11] and even up to 30[12] years of age and beyond.
- verall 3y agoI dunno, I don't think it implies that at all. It seems to imply that scientists have confirmed that growth is still occurring at that point, and not the other way around, especially given the rest of the article.
- hadlock 3y agoUntil recently, most people had kids by the time they were 25 and it's hard to tell people who are in charge of raising other people, that they can't do something. You have to pick a cut off date somewhere. The chasm between 21 and 25 is vast, though.
- Aerroon 3y agoIt's a pop sci myth that has been repeated enough times that it has a life of its own. It's a meme.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoHe explains the details in his book, https://jonathanhaidt.com/anxious-generation/ https://jonathanhaidt.com/anxious-generation/, but I think the gist of it is that his recommendations are reasonable and actionable. Below age 16 it seems quite possible, policy-wise and parent-wise, to keep kids off social media. But the older they get the more they would push back (being teenagers after all). Saying something like "no social media until 25" would immediately have people discount Haidt's rational policy solutions as something not practically achievable, never mind probably not legal either.
- locopati 3y agowhile it may be structurally true, that doesn't say anything about the development of impulse control https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-ye...
- goatlover 3y agoSo you want to ban smart phones for young adults? Good luck with that.
- an_aparallel 3y agoi read today in Peter Sterling's - What is Health?... that the brain doesnt stop maturing until 45...i dont think social media is good for anyone - at any time.
- Glyptodon 3y agoI mean it's a standard age for allowing privileges (driving) to start in the US at least.
- AlexandrB 3y agoI don't get how phones became acceptable in schools. Imagine bringing a GameBoy into class in the 90s. It'd be taken away instantly.
- asciimov 3y agoHelicopter parents and PTA Karens that just have to be able to connect to their kids at all hours. But also, 80s/90s stranger danger and all the school shootings.
- etrautmann 3y agoYeah - it pains me to say this is exactly right. Security concerns trump rationality too often.
- miki123211 3y agoStranger danger and school shootings never really happened outside the U.S., and this is not an America-specific problem. I think phones got through the "back door". When the first cell phones came around, not many kids took them to school, but the only thing they could actually use them for was contacting their friends/parents during breaks, so there was no reason to ban them. A Gameboy was specifically an entertainment device, an old cell phone was more like a flashlight or a watch, something which could presumably be used as a toy, but usually was not. Then, cell phones got cheaper, more kids got them, but they also got more advanced. In the feature phone era, a lot of kids had phones already, but the balance of genuine communication versus amusement was still leaning towards communication. This changed very rapidly, and at a time where phones in schools were already ubiquitous, though their use in class might not have been.
- nerdponx 3y agoPlenty of kids in high school were BBM/texting during class on their flip phones, Sidekicks, etc. They were told not to do it, but they did it anyway under the desk. Only a handful of strong-willed teachers actually took the phones away. However none of the younger kids did that kind of thing.
- bigstrat2003 3y agoAs usual, Haidt is spot on. There's no reason a child should have a smartphone, or be on social media having the algorithms warp their brains. Honestly I would say kids shouldn't have phones at all, except that these days they can't easily find public phones to call their parents (unlike when we were kids). But solving that problem certainly doesn't require a smartphone.