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Internet commentators here trying to critique and optimise your time spent turning up to funerals to say something nice when nobody else has is a little disappo

by jddj 3y ago

Internet commentators here trying to critique and optimise your time spent turning up to funerals to say something nice when nobody else has is a little disappointing. As a thing that happens in the world, an empty funeral is a sad thing. Zoom out folks.

PreInternet01 3y ago
To be honest, I sort-of-expected a lot more conversation around the mechanics of the ceremony (after all, with a lonely funeral, you're the director!), which is a fascinating topic on its own. Instead, reactions were more like those to a viral video: how dare you pay attention to someone who clearly doesn't deserve it? I did not manage to complete all responses I started typing out because of, well, feelings, but that strangely helped to justify the handful of hours I spend on this particular project every year...
Fnoord 3y ago
When I zoom out, I wonder who you do it for, and indeed I come to the conclusion there is so much hatred in this world (including in and around Amsterdam), where people would be better off with giving each other love and attention while alive. There's also people who like solitude. Whereas for the person doing this, it is a (hopefully fun) hobby, and totally within their right to do so. But to say they do it for others? No. After all, nobody notices, there is no meaningful impact whatsoever. Which, to be honest, is a sad realization. You see, the last funeral I went to, was a good friend of my mother. We had to travel throughout the country. I didn't see her much past years, and she wasn't a friend of mine, but I liked her. Why did I go? To support my mother, and because she was a kind person as far as I knew her, and to support the family (her kids especially). In a lone funeral though, none of these factors apply. There's another aspect when I zoom out: why funeral? Why not a different way to leave earth? There are much less impactful methods. Especially Amsterdam is a crowded city. The friend of my mother, for example, went to a natuurbegrafenis (natural burial?) which fits her character very much. It was beautiful.
- CMCDragonkai 3y ago
  Funerals are not for the dead. They are for the living to reconcile together with loss. The fact nobody shows up is telling about the state of society.
- jddj 3y ago
  > Nobody notices, there is no meaningful impact whatsoever. In the article it's stated that the project was started by some poets. The world would be a cold(er), dark(er) place if we took a critically rational knife to every tiny instance of emotional reasoning. I'm probably as rationalist as they come with regards to death, but if we're being critical we should also ask if we're questioning someone's community gesture in earnest or if we're just building another quick soapbox from which to broadcast our personal philosophy. Or (if there's even a distinction), to justify our own self interest when affronted by what could appear to be a selfless gesture.
  - Fnoord 3y ago
    Yeah, you can call something art and get away with it. Because suddenly it is 'an expression', and it does not matter what the use is. If you don't like it, it is a matter of 'taste' and if you don't agree with it 'you don't understand it' or 'you are looking at it from the wrong angle'. The fact of matter is nobody would've known about this if it weren't in the media. That alone tells us these poets don't have reach/impact. I'm all for poetry and art (there's plethora of both which I've enjoyed). I'm also all for this project from a personal PoV, as an experiment, it is a free society where this is (apparently?) allowed. But... do not pretend like it has reach/impact, cause it clearly hasn't. And do not tell me that I have to appreciate it when I clearly disagree with the principle of having a funeral in the first place. All of this can be summed up in one acronym: LARPing. Perhaps without the LA, so just roleplaying would suffice. > The world would be a cold(er), dark(er) place if we took a critically rational knife to every tiny instance of emotional reasoning. There are loads of methods to make an impact on society on living beings, and there's only so much time.
    - jddj 3y ago

by jddj 3y ago

PreInternet01 3y ago

To be honest, I sort-of-expected a lot more conversation around the mechanics of the ceremony (after all, with a lonely funeral, you're the director!), which is a fascinating topic on its own. Instead, reactions were more like those to a viral video: how dare you pay attention to someone who clearly doesn't deserve it? I did not manage to complete all responses I started typing out because of, well, feelings, but that strangely helped to justify the handful of hours I spend on this particular project every year...

Fnoord 3y ago

When I zoom out, I wonder who you do it for, and indeed I come to the conclusion there is so much hatred in this world (including in and around Amsterdam), where people would be better off with giving each other love and attention while alive. There's also people who like solitude. Whereas for the person doing this, it is a (hopefully fun) hobby, and totally within their right to do so. But to say they do it for others? No. After all, nobody notices, there is no meaningful impact whatsoever. Which, to be honest, is a sad realization. You see, the last funeral I went to, was a good friend of my mother. We had to travel throughout the country. I didn't see her much past years, and she wasn't a friend of mine, but I liked her. Why did I go? To support my mother, and because she was a kind person as far as I knew her, and to support the family (her kids especially). In a lone funeral though, none of these factors apply. There's another aspect when I zoom out: why funeral? Why not a different way to leave earth? There are much less impactful methods. Especially Amsterdam is a crowded city. The friend of my mother, for example, went to a natuurbegrafenis (natural burial?) which fits her character very much. It was beautiful.

CMCDragonkai 3y ago
Funerals are not for the dead. They are for the living to reconcile together with loss. The fact nobody shows up is telling about the state of society.
jddj 3y ago
> Nobody notices, there is no meaningful impact whatsoever. In the article it's stated that the project was started by some poets. The world would be a cold(er), dark(er) place if we took a critically rational knife to every tiny instance of emotional reasoning. I'm probably as rationalist as they come with regards to death, but if we're being critical we should also ask if we're questioning someone's community gesture in earnest or if we're just building another quick soapbox from which to broadcast our personal philosophy. Or (if there's even a distinction), to justify our own self interest when affronted by what could appear to be a selfless gesture.
- Fnoord 3y ago
  Yeah, you can call something art and get away with it. Because suddenly it is 'an expression', and it does not matter what the use is. If you don't like it, it is a matter of 'taste' and if you don't agree with it 'you don't understand it' or 'you are looking at it from the wrong angle'. The fact of matter is nobody would've known about this if it weren't in the media. That alone tells us these poets don't have reach/impact. I'm all for poetry and art (there's plethora of both which I've enjoyed). I'm also all for this project from a personal PoV, as an experiment, it is a free society where this is (apparently?) allowed. But... do not pretend like it has reach/impact, cause it clearly hasn't. And do not tell me that I have to appreciate it when I clearly disagree with the principle of having a funeral in the first place. All of this can be summed up in one acronym: LARPing. Perhaps without the LA, so just roleplaying would suffice. > The world would be a cold(er), dark(er) place if we took a critically rational knife to every tiny instance of emotional reasoning. There are loads of methods to make an impact on society on living beings, and there's only so much time.
  - jddj 3y ago