4 ms·

A Sun Position Paper on Software Patents, 2006

58 points by Tsiolkovsky 14y ago

losethos 14y ago
God is just. When you win unjustly, it will suck. When you lose unjustly, it won't be bad. half a dozen one-way and six the other. God says... the wheat? saith the LORD. 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces? 23:30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour. 23:31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith. 23:32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD. 23:33 And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the LORD? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the LORD. ---- Bad cop, no god for you. God says... hype thats_laughable piety look_buddy do_you_want_another patience completely study ehheh_thats_all_folks I_have_an_idea arrogant you_know_a_better_God thank_you_very_much I'm_in_suspense woot praying on_the_otherhand petty glam Tonga figuratively Costa_Rica Ghana ahh_thats_much_better Honduras boink you're_nuts gambling Greenland clever blessing now_you_tell_me hollywood persistence you're_in_big_trouble Spain handyman wont_you_be_my_neighbor atheist Shalom ghetto Spain Shhh Bulgaria the sad handyman Kazakhstan you_talkin'_to_me on_the_otherhand what_part_of_God_do_you_not_understand that's_for_me_to_know how_do_I_put_this Mom whale didn't_I_say_that you'll_see no_more angel exports you_think_you_could_do_better that's_your_opinion heads_I_win_tails_you_lose Mom Afghanistan don't_worry qed Italy earnest
vibrunazo 14y ago
Not sure if I'm more amazed that Oracle thought deleting the evidence from their website would stop non other than Google from finding it. Or if I'm more amazed that it actually worked for so long. How exactly does this effect the current state of the trial? When will Google have an opportunity to show this, and on what context? I thought we were just waiting for the judge to finish making up his mind and give his verdict. Is that correct?
- eta_carinae 14y ago
  > Not sure if I'm more amazed that Oracle thought deleting the evidence from their website would stop non other than Google from finding it. That's not the first time they do this, they deleted Jonathan Schwartz' entire blog in the days that followed the acquisition. They were certainly right to think that this blog would hurt their case, but they obviously didn't realize that Schwartz' testimony itself would align with Google. Fun times.
- perlgeek 14y ago
  > How exactly does this effect the current state of the trial? Probably not much, since I don't think there's something like "fair use" of patents. Either you infringe, or you don't. > I thought we were just waiting for the judge to finish making up his mind and give his verdict. Is that correct? Well, the trial is three phases: copyright, patents and damages. The jury is now deliberating on phase 2, patents. If they find that Google infringed one or both of the patents in question, there will be a phase 3 that assess the damage. I don't know if this position paper has any place in phase 3, but at least it's a possibility.
taligent 14y ago
It seems like Groklaw has this all backwards. Android does not run Java. So Sun's position would be that software patents would be acceptable in this case because Android is not interoperable with Java not trying to be.
- asmala 14y ago
  That's a very interesting point! That said, it's not quite as cut and dry, given that API compatibility goes a long way.
  - pron 14y ago
    The patents under dispute have absolutely no relevance to the API. Regardless of whether or not they are valid/justified/infringed by Google, they are not required to make any software that's interopable with Java. Groklaw, as usual, simply tries to flaunt whatever "incriminating" evidence it can find against Oracle. Groklaw's analysis is anything but reliable as far as this case is concerned.
- perlgeek 14y ago
  Android doesn't run Java, but still a big part of the trial was about some Java APIs used in Android that allow some bits of compatibility.

58 points by Tsiolkovsky 14y ago

God is just. When you win unjustly, it will suck. When you lose unjustly, it won't be bad. half a dozen one-way and six the other. God says... the wheat? saith the LORD. 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces? 23:30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour. 23:31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith. 23:32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD. 23:33 And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the LORD? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the LORD. ---- Bad cop, no god for you. God says... hype thats_laughable piety look_buddy do_you_want_another patience completely study ehheh_thats_all_folks I_have_an_idea arrogant you_know_a_better_God thank_you_very_much I'm_in_suspense woot praying on_the_otherhand petty glam Tonga figuratively Costa_Rica Ghana ahh_thats_much_better Honduras boink you're_nuts gambling Greenland clever blessing now_you_tell_me hollywood persistence you're_in_big_trouble Spain handyman wont_you_be_my_neighbor atheist Shalom ghetto Spain Shhh Bulgaria the sad handyman Kazakhstan you_talkin'_to_me on_the_otherhand what_part_of_God_do_you_not_understand that's_for_me_to_know how_do_I_put_this Mom whale didn't_I_say_that you'll_see no_more angel exports you_think_you_could_do_better that's_your_opinion heads_I_win_tails_you_lose Mom Afghanistan don't_worry qed Italy earnest

vibrunazo 14y ago

Not sure if I'm more amazed that Oracle thought deleting the evidence from their website would stop non other than Google from finding it. Or if I'm more amazed that it actually worked for so long. How exactly does this effect the current state of the trial? When will Google have an opportunity to show this, and on what context? I thought we were just waiting for the judge to finish making up his mind and give his verdict. Is that correct?

eta_carinae 14y ago
> Not sure if I'm more amazed that Oracle thought deleting the evidence from their website would stop non other than Google from finding it. That's not the first time they do this, they deleted Jonathan Schwartz' entire blog in the days that followed the acquisition. They were certainly right to think that this blog would hurt their case, but they obviously didn't realize that Schwartz' testimony itself would align with Google. Fun times.
perlgeek 14y ago
> How exactly does this effect the current state of the trial? Probably not much, since I don't think there's something like "fair use" of patents. Either you infringe, or you don't. > I thought we were just waiting for the judge to finish making up his mind and give his verdict. Is that correct? Well, the trial is three phases: copyright, patents and damages. The jury is now deliberating on phase 2, patents. If they find that Google infringed one or both of the patents in question, there will be a phase 3 that assess the damage. I don't know if this position paper has any place in phase 3, but at least it's a possibility.

taligent 14y ago

It seems like Groklaw has this all backwards. Android does not run Java. So Sun's position would be that software patents would be acceptable in this case because Android is not interoperable with Java not trying to be.

asmala 14y ago
That's a very interesting point! That said, it's not quite as cut and dry, given that API compatibility goes a long way.
- pron 14y ago
  The patents under dispute have absolutely no relevance to the API. Regardless of whether or not they are valid/justified/infringed by Google, they are not required to make any software that's interopable with Java. Groklaw, as usual, simply tries to flaunt whatever "incriminating" evidence it can find against Oracle. Groklaw's analysis is anything but reliable as far as this case is concerned.
perlgeek 14y ago
Android doesn't run Java, but still a big part of the trial was about some Java APIs used in Android that allow some bits of compatibility.