8 ms·

Notably Fairphone removed the headphone jack on their phones so that they could sell us these wireless earbuds. I appreciate that the battery is replacable on t

Notably Fairphone removed the headphone jack on their phones so that they could sell us these wireless earbuds. I appreciate that the battery is replacable on these buds, but not worth it imo! After all, wired earbuds don't even need batteries. :(

nebalee 3y ago
Wired USB-C earbuds exist.
- user_7832 3y ago
  Batteries are just one of the many issues when headphone jacks are removed. (Also you can totally use wireless/usb-c headphones with phones with jacks, but that's something hopefully people realize.)
- ssl-3 3y ago
  They do exist, but USC-C headphones include an entire USB sound card instead of -- you know -- just some headphone electromagnetic bits.
  - aeyes 3y ago
    So use any of the ~10$ USB-C to headphone dongles with your favorite headphones. For example the Apple or Google adapters work fine.
    - 8zah6q7 3y ago
      The Apple USB-C to 3.5 mm TRS adapter in particular is a great value. https://www.audioreviews.org/apple-audio-adapter-review/ https://www.audioreviews.org/apple-audio-adapter-review/
      - edb_123 3y ago
        Except for the not-so-minor issue for us Android users: The default gain on Apples adapter is far too low for most proper headphones, and Android doesn't touch the gain and just relies on software-mixer for volume control. This results in a far too low volume. On Apple and Windows devices on the other hand, they are excellent.
  - Kirby64 3y ago
    "an entire USB sound card" is literally a single piece of silicon (plus some passive components like resistors and capacitors) that can cost less than 10 cents to manufacture. Not exactly a huge burden here. Additionally, unlike a 3.5mm jack, you don't need to deal with a 'sound card' that can handle almost anything you can plug into it. You get to tailor your headphone/headset drivers specifically to your attached devices. The general-purpose device that can handle anything you can throw at it costs much more.
  - TylerE 3y ago
    You know the wireless earbuds have the exact same circuitry built in, right?
    - ssl-3 3y ago
      You know what doesn't have any active electronics at all? Regular headphones. It's just wire and magnets, with some plastic.
      - TylerE 3y ago
        That wire and magnets isn’t gonna do anything unless it’s hooked up to at the very least an amp (+ a dac if were talking digital)
        ssl-3 3y ago
        Such functions have historically (for many decades) been provided by devices with which headphones are intended to be used.
        TylerE 3y ago
        She every computer still come with a floppy drive? Times and needs and technology change.
        ssl-3 3y ago
        No, of course not. But the floppy drive was supplanted by other means of data transfer and storage that were broadly perceived to be bigger/better/faster/stronger. Is there some aspect of active headphones that is bigger/better/faster/stronger than regular passive headphones?
user_7832 3y ago
I was wondering/hoping someone would raise this point. Wireless earbuds being repairable is great, but you don't need to remove the jack for that.
petsfed 3y ago
Counterpoint: The material and monetary cost of the number of wired headphones I've destroyed in the 6 years before I got wireless head phones (because there was no realistic way to stow the cabling for the activity I was involved in) probably approaches the cost of the 2 pairs of wireless headphones I've owned in the last 6 years. I don't think they cut the headphone jack just to sell these headphones. While it is true that you can make a headphone jack as water-resistant as the rest of the phone, every hole you put in the phone adds to the design and assembly cost to maintain the same IP rating. And each hole significantly adds to the complexity of repairing that phone in such a way that it maintains that IP rating after the repair.
- gibolt 3y ago
  Same. I've been using a tiny pair of wireless headphones for ~5 years. If anything were to break, it is fairly easy to order replacements on Ebay which causes nothing new to be manufactured. A set of small wireless headphones uses far less material than a large pair of wired headphones. Not saying it is a direct replacement, just that everything has some environmental impact, and fretting over one tiny device misses the forest for the trees.
- hyperpl 3y ago
  Counterpoint: I've lost either the earbuds or case of so many wireless earbuds during the past 4 years that I could have afforded 2-3 much higher quality wired earbuds.
  - markhahn 3y ago
    do you also lose phones themselves? keys? pens? I probably outed myself as an old with the latter question ;)
    - jszymborski 3y ago
      It's way easier for me to lose something the size and weight of a nickel than a phone. Not to mention ear buds do on occasion come lose and fall. With wired headphones, they dangle, but wireless buds fall into all manner of nooks, drains, and bottomless caverns.
RockRobotRock 3y ago
You could always buy a dongle which doesn’t seem like the end of the world to me
- segasaturn 3y ago
  Even Apple has given up on the "just use a USB-C dongle" approach to peripherals.
  - nickthegreek 3y ago
    by given up, you mean actively sale. https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MU7E2AM/A/usb-c-to-35-mm-headphone-jack-adapter https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MU7E2AM/A/usb-c-to-35-mm-...
- MildlySerious 3y ago
  Plugging into a USB-C port in the center of the bottom side feels a lot less sturdy than plugging into the audio port closer to the side. Decreased the lifetime of the wires by a lot as well, it felt like. I've tried for a while before finally giving up and getting bluetooth earbuds.
- mikepurvis 3y ago
  There's even the option of a battery powered receiver that you can then plug any wired headphones into, eg: https://www.walmart.com/ip/AGPtek-Streambot-Mini-Bluetooth-Wireless-Receiver-A2DP-Adapter-for-Home-Audio-and-Car-Stereo/52312112 https://www.walmart.com/ip/AGPtek-Streambot-Mini-Bluetooth-W...
  - RockRobotRock 3y ago
    To be fair, SBC codec plus the extra latency probably isn't too appealing.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  It's not the end of the world, but it's the end of wired headphones. The dongle is a pain. Phonemakers know this, and that's why each removed the jack, to sell their new wireless earbuds. Even Samsung did this after criticizing Apple for it. And most people who say "just use the dongle" are not using the dongle.
mafuyu 3y ago
The industry seems to have settled on USB-C dongles as the solution for wired headphones. They’re a little clunkier, but they do work pretty well, and you get options for the DAC. Headphone jacks were a major wear item on older smartphones, and waterproofing them is very annoying as well, requiring a ton of adhesives. I had to take the back glass off my old Xperia Z2C three times over its life to replace the headphone jack, and the waterproofing was totally shot after doing so. At the end of the day, I honestly don’t mind the trade off, although I can see how it can be annoying for others.
- jszymborski 3y ago
  > Headphone jacks were a major wear item on older smartphones I've had the area around jacks get scratched over the years, but I've never had them fail due to mechanical wear. Is this common for others? I've certainly had the micro and mini USB ports fail on me over the years though.
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    Yeah, never had headphone jack issues, it was always the USB port, including with type C now. Sounds like a ridiculous assertion to me, but maybe I use my phone differently.
  - mafuyu 3y ago
    I think it varies a lot from product to product, and much of it is the mechanical design of the phone housing, and the durability of the jack they selected. Plus it’s really easy to accidentally put a lot of mechanical strain on it when the cable gets tugged. MiniUSB was a busted connector design from the start, which is why the industry moved to Micro USB so quickly. Many MiniUSB receptacles in the wild were failing after thousands or even hundreds(!) of insertions.
  - vundercind 3y ago
    It was a constant problem in my PC & Android days. They’d stop making good contact before long. Sometimes, they never would. Not a problem (like, never) once I switched to Apple… but then they removed the jacks.
bigstrat2003 3y ago
Yeah, if only there were some kind of connector which would deliver the current to the earbuds. Then you wouldn't need batteries at all. Perhaps some manner of universal connector which would work with the earbuds everyone already has. But that seems too far fetched, we just don't have the technology for such a thing.
- craftkiller 3y ago
  > some manner of universal connector Sounds like you want usb type c! In addition to Audio Adapter Accessory Mode which allows it to drive a couple pins with analog audio exactly like the 3.5mm jacks (and therefore enabling completely passive adapters to support devices with 3.5mm jacks), usb type c also supports charging, high speed data, and video. That's a lot more universal than some silly jack that can only support audio. Unfortunately it looks like at least the fairphone 4 didn't support Audio Adapter Accessory Mode and I haven't found information on whether the fairphone 5 supports it. Definitely a mark against the company if they don't support Audio Adapter Accessory Mode.
throawayonthe 3y ago
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nebalee 3y ago

Wired USB-C earbuds exist.

user_7832 3y ago
Batteries are just one of the many issues when headphone jacks are removed. (Also you can totally use wireless/usb-c headphones with phones with jacks, but that's something hopefully people realize.)
ssl-3 3y ago
They do exist, but USC-C headphones include an entire USB sound card instead of -- you know -- just some headphone electromagnetic bits.
- aeyes 3y ago
  So use any of the ~10$ USB-C to headphone dongles with your favorite headphones. For example the Apple or Google adapters work fine.
  - 8zah6q7 3y ago
    The Apple USB-C to 3.5 mm TRS adapter in particular is a great value. https://www.audioreviews.org/apple-audio-adapter-review/ https://www.audioreviews.org/apple-audio-adapter-review/
    - edb_123 3y ago
      Except for the not-so-minor issue for us Android users: The default gain on Apples adapter is far too low for most proper headphones, and Android doesn't touch the gain and just relies on software-mixer for volume control. This results in a far too low volume. On Apple and Windows devices on the other hand, they are excellent.
- Kirby64 3y ago
  "an entire USB sound card" is literally a single piece of silicon (plus some passive components like resistors and capacitors) that can cost less than 10 cents to manufacture. Not exactly a huge burden here. Additionally, unlike a 3.5mm jack, you don't need to deal with a 'sound card' that can handle almost anything you can plug into it. You get to tailor your headphone/headset drivers specifically to your attached devices. The general-purpose device that can handle anything you can throw at it costs much more.
- TylerE 3y ago
  You know the wireless earbuds have the exact same circuitry built in, right?
  - ssl-3 3y ago
    You know what doesn't have any active electronics at all? Regular headphones. It's just wire and magnets, with some plastic.
    - TylerE 3y ago
      That wire and magnets isn’t gonna do anything unless it’s hooked up to at the very least an amp (+ a dac if were talking digital)
      - ssl-3 3y ago
        Such functions have historically (for many decades) been provided by devices with which headphones are intended to be used.
        TylerE 3y ago
        She every computer still come with a floppy drive? Times and needs and technology change.
        ssl-3 3y ago
        No, of course not. But the floppy drive was supplanted by other means of data transfer and storage that were broadly perceived to be bigger/better/faster/stronger. Is there some aspect of active headphones that is bigger/better/faster/stronger than regular passive headphones?

user_7832 3y ago

I was wondering/hoping someone would raise this point. Wireless earbuds being repairable is great, but you don't need to remove the jack for that.

petsfed 3y ago

Counterpoint: The material and monetary cost of the number of wired headphones I've destroyed in the 6 years before I got wireless head phones (because there was no realistic way to stow the cabling for the activity I was involved in) probably approaches the cost of the 2 pairs of wireless headphones I've owned in the last 6 years. I don't think they cut the headphone jack just to sell these headphones. While it is true that you can make a headphone jack as water-resistant as the rest of the phone, every hole you put in the phone adds to the design and assembly cost to maintain the same IP rating. And each hole significantly adds to the complexity of repairing that phone in such a way that it maintains that IP rating after the repair.

gibolt 3y ago
Same. I've been using a tiny pair of wireless headphones for ~5 years. If anything were to break, it is fairly easy to order replacements on Ebay which causes nothing new to be manufactured. A set of small wireless headphones uses far less material than a large pair of wired headphones. Not saying it is a direct replacement, just that everything has some environmental impact, and fretting over one tiny device misses the forest for the trees.
hyperpl 3y ago
Counterpoint: I've lost either the earbuds or case of so many wireless earbuds during the past 4 years that I could have afforded 2-3 much higher quality wired earbuds.
- markhahn 3y ago
  do you also lose phones themselves? keys? pens? I probably outed myself as an old with the latter question ;)
  - jszymborski 3y ago
    It's way easier for me to lose something the size and weight of a nickel than a phone. Not to mention ear buds do on occasion come lose and fall. With wired headphones, they dangle, but wireless buds fall into all manner of nooks, drains, and bottomless caverns.

RockRobotRock 3y ago

You could always buy a dongle which doesn’t seem like the end of the world to me

segasaturn 3y ago
Even Apple has given up on the "just use a USB-C dongle" approach to peripherals.
- nickthegreek 3y ago
  by given up, you mean actively sale. https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MU7E2AM/A/usb-c-to-35-mm-headphone-jack-adapter https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MU7E2AM/A/usb-c-to-35-mm-...
MildlySerious 3y ago
Plugging into a USB-C port in the center of the bottom side feels a lot less sturdy than plugging into the audio port closer to the side. Decreased the lifetime of the wires by a lot as well, it felt like. I've tried for a while before finally giving up and getting bluetooth earbuds.
mikepurvis 3y ago
There's even the option of a battery powered receiver that you can then plug any wired headphones into, eg: https://www.walmart.com/ip/AGPtek-Streambot-Mini-Bluetooth-Wireless-Receiver-A2DP-Adapter-for-Home-Audio-and-Car-Stereo/52312112 https://www.walmart.com/ip/AGPtek-Streambot-Mini-Bluetooth-W...
- RockRobotRock 3y ago
  To be fair, SBC codec plus the extra latency probably isn't too appealing.
hot_gril 3y ago
It's not the end of the world, but it's the end of wired headphones. The dongle is a pain. Phonemakers know this, and that's why each removed the jack, to sell their new wireless earbuds. Even Samsung did this after criticizing Apple for it. And most people who say "just use the dongle" are not using the dongle.

mafuyu 3y ago

The industry seems to have settled on USB-C dongles as the solution for wired headphones. They’re a little clunkier, but they do work pretty well, and you get options for the DAC. Headphone jacks were a major wear item on older smartphones, and waterproofing them is very annoying as well, requiring a ton of adhesives. I had to take the back glass off my old Xperia Z2C three times over its life to replace the headphone jack, and the waterproofing was totally shot after doing so. At the end of the day, I honestly don’t mind the trade off, although I can see how it can be annoying for others.

jszymborski 3y ago
> Headphone jacks were a major wear item on older smartphones I've had the area around jacks get scratched over the years, but I've never had them fail due to mechanical wear. Is this common for others? I've certainly had the micro and mini USB ports fail on me over the years though.
- Semaphor 3y ago
  Yeah, never had headphone jack issues, it was always the USB port, including with type C now. Sounds like a ridiculous assertion to me, but maybe I use my phone differently.
- mafuyu 3y ago
  I think it varies a lot from product to product, and much of it is the mechanical design of the phone housing, and the durability of the jack they selected. Plus it’s really easy to accidentally put a lot of mechanical strain on it when the cable gets tugged. MiniUSB was a busted connector design from the start, which is why the industry moved to Micro USB so quickly. Many MiniUSB receptacles in the wild were failing after thousands or even hundreds(!) of insertions.
- vundercind 3y ago
  It was a constant problem in my PC & Android days. They’d stop making good contact before long. Sometimes, they never would. Not a problem (like, never) once I switched to Apple… but then they removed the jacks.

bigstrat2003 3y ago

Yeah, if only there were some kind of connector which would deliver the current to the earbuds. Then you wouldn't need batteries at all. Perhaps some manner of universal connector which would work with the earbuds everyone already has. But that seems too far fetched, we just don't have the technology for such a thing.

craftkiller 3y ago
> some manner of universal connector Sounds like you want usb type c! In addition to Audio Adapter Accessory Mode which allows it to drive a couple pins with analog audio exactly like the 3.5mm jacks (and therefore enabling completely passive adapters to support devices with 3.5mm jacks), usb type c also supports charging, high speed data, and video. That's a lot more universal than some silly jack that can only support audio. Unfortunately it looks like at least the fairphone 4 didn't support Audio Adapter Accessory Mode and I haven't found information on whether the fairphone 5 supports it. Definitely a mark against the company if they don't support Audio Adapter Accessory Mode.

throawayonthe 3y ago

[dead]