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Wait we have a 99% lead acid battery recycling rate? I don't mean to be suspect but that seems suspiciously high - maybe pushed by an industry rep group or som

Wait we have a 99% lead acid battery recycling rate? I don't mean to be suspect but that seems suspiciously high - maybe pushed by an industry rep group or something. Similar to how oil and gas say they flare 99.5% of their fugitive emissions instead of it getting vented.

bryanlarsen 3y ago
It's an easily falsifiable statement. If it's wrong the HN personality will not let it lie and proof that it's wrong will be quickly posted. It could be you!
- boringg 3y ago
  I looked into it -- the Battery Council International is the one who promotes near perfect recycling rate. Listen - I'm sure its a high rate of recycling which should be celebrated. There's just no way its 99% that's all I'm saying. Maybe 99% of the components that make their way to e-waste get recycled but theres no way even 80% of batteries even make it to e-waste.
  - tekla 3y ago
    Ok, prove your claims
    - boringg 3y ago
      The amount of effort that I would have to put in in to refute the claims from an industry group that lobbies the Federal government (BCI) which includes both producers and recyclers is far to significant for the marginal gains of an upvote on HN. If you can't see the conflict of interest on the source of the 99% and the funding members of the BCI community and their interest that's on you. Like I said I am sure its a high number but I very much doubt 99% and noone really has any incentive to try and find out what that real number is - its a waste of resources.
      - bryanlarsen 3y ago
        You don't have to refute the claims of an industry group. What you have to do is check their sources. It also passes the smoke test. Who the heck is going to illegally discard a lead acid battery core, potentially risking hundreds of thousands of dollars of fines, when the alternative is collecting $20 from a recycler?
_ea1k 3y ago
The core charge on lead acid batteries is really high. It'd be surprising if they weren't getting recycled the vast majority of the time. 99% sounds high, but I wouldn't say it is impossible.
margalabargala 3y ago
Most place accepting lead car batteries will pay you for them. They are thus highly recycled for the same reason that copper is; there is a lot of incentive for random folks to seek out unrecycled batteries and recycle them. I bet the precious metals in catalytic converters are also >99% recycled. The core charge when you buy a new battery is a deposit returned to whomever returns the battery. Putting a $20 bounty on an item is a great incentive to have someone recycle them.
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  Counterpoint: they put a deposit/return on smaller plastic bottles and cans over here, but last year only 65% of cans were returned instead of just binned. (as an aside I don't really understand that as cans and plastic bottles are easily separated from regular waste, but it's probably also down to reducing street waste, increasing consumer awareness, raising prices to consumers so they consume less disposable packaging, aaand get more money.)
  - nebula8804 3y ago
    The deposit is like 5-10 cents right? Might be too small for most people to notice. The car battery fee is like 15-30$ and is charged as a separate line item at the point of sale. Also the batteries are large and contain acid and are only taken out of the car once its time to buy a new battery and given straight to the shop that sells the new battery, all these incentives line up to make recycling essentially zero friction.
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    In Denmark the bottle return rate is 92%. Collecting bottles like this allowed the plastic to be used for food-grade recycled plastic, which is not the case for general household waste. Glas beer and soda bottles are washed and refused. https://danskretursystem.dk/en/about-us/ https://danskretursystem.dk/en/about-us/
  - margalabargala 3y ago
    I live in Oregon where the deposit is $0.10, and while plenty of citizens will toss cans, there are also plenty of people who will go through trash looking for them to return. It's not difficult to believe that increasing the deposit 150x would correspondingly increase return rates.
nebula8804 3y ago
Are you US based? And have you ever replaced a car battery? The store you buy your new battery from usually adds a charge to your new battery called a "core charge" that they refund to you if you bring your old battery. Plus the batteries are large and contain acid so people don't leave them lying around at home. This helps ensure high recycling rates.
- ffsm8 3y ago
  It's still suspiciously high. Just think of all the car junkyards and countries that basically have no enforced regulations like rural India, China etc.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    Scavengers scour those sites. A lead-acid battery is worth $20. They'd be stripped from any leftover cars instantly.

bryanlarsen 3y ago

It's an easily falsifiable statement. If it's wrong the HN personality will not let it lie and proof that it's wrong will be quickly posted. It could be you!

boringg 3y ago
I looked into it -- the Battery Council International is the one who promotes near perfect recycling rate. Listen - I'm sure its a high rate of recycling which should be celebrated. There's just no way its 99% that's all I'm saying. Maybe 99% of the components that make their way to e-waste get recycled but theres no way even 80% of batteries even make it to e-waste.
- tekla 3y ago
  Ok, prove your claims
  - boringg 3y ago
    The amount of effort that I would have to put in in to refute the claims from an industry group that lobbies the Federal government (BCI) which includes both producers and recyclers is far to significant for the marginal gains of an upvote on HN. If you can't see the conflict of interest on the source of the 99% and the funding members of the BCI community and their interest that's on you. Like I said I am sure its a high number but I very much doubt 99% and noone really has any incentive to try and find out what that real number is - its a waste of resources.
    - bryanlarsen 3y ago
      You don't have to refute the claims of an industry group. What you have to do is check their sources. It also passes the smoke test. Who the heck is going to illegally discard a lead acid battery core, potentially risking hundreds of thousands of dollars of fines, when the alternative is collecting $20 from a recycler?

_ea1k 3y ago

The core charge on lead acid batteries is really high. It'd be surprising if they weren't getting recycled the vast majority of the time. 99% sounds high, but I wouldn't say it is impossible.

margalabargala 3y ago

Most place accepting lead car batteries will pay you for them. They are thus highly recycled for the same reason that copper is; there is a lot of incentive for random folks to seek out unrecycled batteries and recycle them. I bet the precious metals in catalytic converters are also >99% recycled. The core charge when you buy a new battery is a deposit returned to whomever returns the battery. Putting a $20 bounty on an item is a great incentive to have someone recycle them.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Counterpoint: they put a deposit/return on smaller plastic bottles and cans over here, but last year only 65% of cans were returned instead of just binned. (as an aside I don't really understand that as cans and plastic bottles are easily separated from regular waste, but it's probably also down to reducing street waste, increasing consumer awareness, raising prices to consumers so they consume less disposable packaging, aaand get more money.)
- nebula8804 3y ago
  The deposit is like 5-10 cents right? Might be too small for most people to notice. The car battery fee is like 15-30$ and is charged as a separate line item at the point of sale. Also the batteries are large and contain acid and are only taken out of the car once its time to buy a new battery and given straight to the shop that sells the new battery, all these incentives line up to make recycling essentially zero friction.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  In Denmark the bottle return rate is 92%. Collecting bottles like this allowed the plastic to be used for food-grade recycled plastic, which is not the case for general household waste. Glas beer and soda bottles are washed and refused. https://danskretursystem.dk/en/about-us/ https://danskretursystem.dk/en/about-us/
- margalabargala 3y ago
  I live in Oregon where the deposit is $0.10, and while plenty of citizens will toss cans, there are also plenty of people who will go through trash looking for them to return. It's not difficult to believe that increasing the deposit 150x would correspondingly increase return rates.

nebula8804 3y ago

Are you US based? And have you ever replaced a car battery? The store you buy your new battery from usually adds a charge to your new battery called a "core charge" that they refund to you if you bring your old battery. Plus the batteries are large and contain acid so people don't leave them lying around at home. This helps ensure high recycling rates.

ffsm8 3y ago
It's still suspiciously high. Just think of all the car junkyards and countries that basically have no enforced regulations like rural India, China etc.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  Scavengers scour those sites. A lead-acid battery is worth $20. They'd be stripped from any leftover cars instantly.