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> we continue to live with those repercussions today I've yet to have an answer for what the repercussions in the developed world of non-recycling plastics act

> we continue to live with those repercussions today I've yet to have an answer for what the repercussions in the developed world of non-recycling plastics actaully is. Once plastic is thrown away it can be put in landfill and my understanding is that landfills in the developed world are as a rule well sealed and the leakage is negligible. Landfilled plastic rather than recycled plastic means more oil gets turned into plastic rather than burnt for energy, increasing the price of oil and thus increasing investment in more carbon neutral energy sources. So I struggle to see the benefits of cost-inefficient plastic recycling, particularly compared to all the other things that could be done with those man hours.

sofixa 3y ago
A lot of that plastic gets exported to other countries where landfills might not be as leak-proof, or gets thrown outside of dedicated spaces (like on the side of the road) and thus ends up in nature. There it directly damages wildlife (birds chocking on plastic bags and related), and/or breaks down into microplastics which are everywhere in water and animals, and we consume, with unclear effects on humans or biodiversity. Furthermore, I don't get the link between increased plastics, price of oil and investment in carbon neutral energy. Price of oil is a delicate balance by OPEC to extract as much money as possible - they have drastically more capacity than they're currently pumping and exporting, and it's carefully managed, on purpose. Reducing oil use is paramount to limit the damage to the planet; reducing plastic waste is too. Waiting for a potential cycle of "lots of plastic waste" -> "maybe prices of oil will go higher if OPEC stops existing" -> "maybe this will incentivise more investments in alternative energy sources" -> "maybe this will diminish plastic use" (how? according to market theories, the price of oil should go down if use goes down, so there will be even more incentive for plastic production; but as we discussed previously, oil is a very special market) is... not a good option.
- concordDance 3y ago
  But if the plastic is put in a local landfill (my local waste is) then is there any non-negligible harm? (As an aside: I find it odd you seem to have plastic reduction as a similar priority to oil use reduction given the effects of climate change seem far more severe than even third world plastic disposal)
  - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
    you realize that plastic is oil, right? plastic reduction is oil reduction.
  - sofixa 3y ago
    > But if the plastic is put in a local landfill (my local waste is) then is there any non-negligible harm? Wasteful consumption of oil for a single use. And your local landfill isn't set in stone, a natural disaster or neglect can release the trash in it in nature. > (As an aside: I find it odd you seem to have plastic reduction as a similar priority to oil use reduction given the effects of climate change seem far more severe than even third world plastic disposal) But we don't really know what the impact of all the plastic everywhere is, like we didn't (widely) know what the impact of lots of carbon emissions is. And when we started realising it, it was still drastically underestimate (see: every month is breaking temperature records at an unexpected pace). Reducing oil consumption by reducing plastic consumption, and also reducing the amount of plastic in nature, are both important. Both will prevent potential ecosystem collapses.

sofixa 3y ago

A lot of that plastic gets exported to other countries where landfills might not be as leak-proof, or gets thrown outside of dedicated spaces (like on the side of the road) and thus ends up in nature. There it directly damages wildlife (birds chocking on plastic bags and related), and/or breaks down into microplastics which are everywhere in water and animals, and we consume, with unclear effects on humans or biodiversity. Furthermore, I don't get the link between increased plastics, price of oil and investment in carbon neutral energy. Price of oil is a delicate balance by OPEC to extract as much money as possible - they have drastically more capacity than they're currently pumping and exporting, and it's carefully managed, on purpose. Reducing oil use is paramount to limit the damage to the planet; reducing plastic waste is too. Waiting for a potential cycle of "lots of plastic waste" -> "maybe prices of oil will go higher if OPEC stops existing" -> "maybe this will incentivise more investments in alternative energy sources" -> "maybe this will diminish plastic use" (how? according to market theories, the price of oil should go down if use goes down, so there will be even more incentive for plastic production; but as we discussed previously, oil is a very special market) is... not a good option.

concordDance 3y ago
But if the plastic is put in a local landfill (my local waste is) then is there any non-negligible harm? (As an aside: I find it odd you seem to have plastic reduction as a similar priority to oil use reduction given the effects of climate change seem far more severe than even third world plastic disposal)
- adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
  you realize that plastic is oil, right? plastic reduction is oil reduction.
- sofixa 3y ago
  > But if the plastic is put in a local landfill (my local waste is) then is there any non-negligible harm? Wasteful consumption of oil for a single use. And your local landfill isn't set in stone, a natural disaster or neglect can release the trash in it in nature. > (As an aside: I find it odd you seem to have plastic reduction as a similar priority to oil use reduction given the effects of climate change seem far more severe than even third world plastic disposal) But we don't really know what the impact of all the plastic everywhere is, like we didn't (widely) know what the impact of lots of carbon emissions is. And when we started realising it, it was still drastically underestimate (see: every month is breaking temperature records at an unexpected pace). Reducing oil consumption by reducing plastic consumption, and also reducing the amount of plastic in nature, are both important. Both will prevent potential ecosystem collapses.