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It's not the capitalism per se, but lack of free markets and overregulation. Humanity hasn't found yet a better way for resource allocation that capitalism. Ca

It's not the capitalism per se, but lack of free markets and overregulation. Humanity hasn't found yet a better way for resource allocation that capitalism. Capitalism = the system where the ownership of the capital is by private persons. (as defined by the dictionary) Is there a systemic problem that your auto dealership is not owned by government? May be the problem is that you can't open a new one, because of zoning laws or minimum wage or something else? No markets are free, but only in countries where markets have some degree of freedom you can have the abundance (and corresponding waste of the system). Check all centralized systems of resource allocation - from socialism, highly centralized authoritarianism, theocratic monarchies or very large companies. No competition = more waste. Any owner of a small business understands that there is no "flaw in capitalism" itself, because you can't force your clients to buy from you. You can only do that if you have cornered the market. You can't corner the market if you play by the free market rules. But if you need a "licence", "certificate" or other non-market tool to sell your goods to the customer this is the way to kill your competition. Varoufakis has been wrong soo many times since Greece default that it's not even worth mentioning all his predictions.

freefaler 3y ago
btw, auto dealerships are like that because territorial exclusivity by the large companies, not the "capitalism". because of capitlism, there are >1 auto dealership ...
- itsoktocry 3y ago
  >btw, auto dealerships are like that because territorial exclusivity by the large companies, not the "capitalism". The auto world is cut-throat competitive. There are dealers everywhere, and most cars and features are commoditized. In every class and price range there are easily substitutable vehicles. Tech people like to talk about the auto industry like the market is scandalous.
  - freefaler 3y ago
    The problem is access to the tools by independent auto shops. There is a whole industry of alternative tool providers who are sniffing and reimplementing the protocols, because of the vendor lock-in.
keiferski 3y ago
Yeah I continue to not understand the “late capitalism” label of current events. Very little of what we have today can be called capitalist in the original, competition-focused sense of the term. Most markets are very regulated and anticompetitive.
- krapp 3y ago
  Capitalism in the original, competition-focused sense of the term has never existed in the real world, any more than Communism in the purely egalitarian stateless and classless sense. Late stage capitalism refers to the inevitable end-state of what capitalism actually evolves into, which is essentially oligarchy, preceding collapse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism
  - keiferski 3y ago
    The fact that a pure thing never existed doesn’t mean that something more pure didn’t / can’t exist. That’s also not what late stage capitalism, the term, generally refers to. If a key part of capitalism is competition, then clearly whatever we have now is not very capitalist. The primary reason this term (late stage capitalism) is used is because people lack knowledge about economic history and can’t seem to operate on anything more complex than good-bad, capitalist-communist, private-public.
    - TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
      A key part of capitalism is rhetoric about competition. Oppressive monopoly is the inevitable outcome of "competitive" capitalism. The point is so obvious it's trivial to model mathematically. I believe there was even a board game invented to make the point.
      - keiferski 3y ago
        What do you think anti trust laws are? And do you think we have an abundance of them now?
tmcb 3y ago
> You can only do that if you have cornered the market. How does capitalism address the fact that so many companies have cornered their markets not on merit but on resource access inequality, and have now accumulated enough resources to engage in lobbying and legal harassment for a long time even if free-market "reforms" are eventually passed? Should these companies be closed based on their past record?
tored 3y ago
> You can only do that if you have cornered the market. Which happens over and over because we humans are flawed, thus every system we create will also be flawed. If capitalisms only works in theory then it is as good as communism.
- keiferski 3y ago
  Capitalism (or more specifically, elements of it like private ownership and the market economy) has resulted in the largest increase of living standards in history. See: China, India, ex-USSR countries like Poland.
  - tored 3y ago
    Market economy is not necessary the same as capitalism, China is capitalist in some parts but it also a heavy state subsidized economy with a regulated market and public ownership. And the massive increase in living standard can be attributed to multiple factors that was all needed to make it possible, superposition as it is called in physics, e.g. a proper contracting framework, a literate and educated public, technological advances, deregulating markets from the old estates system, etc. We can take Sweden as a good example, yes the legislative change in 1864[1] that anyone could operate a business was crucial, but where did all the talent come from that actually created all those famous Swedish companies and inventions? Many came from the Swedish Army because Sweden was an old Great Power and the army needed many engineers to be able to build fortifications and such. Two of the most famous ones would be Nils Ericson[2] and his younger brother John Ericsson[3] But you also need qualified workers and it happens that Sweden had at the time one of the most literate population in the world because of the Swedish state church. In the old days Sweden was quite strict religiously and the Swedish state church had conducted Household Examinations since 1686[4] about general knowledge in the Bible and Luther's Small Catechism. You can't really run a modern industry with an illiterate public. Thus attributing everything to "capitalism" is gross simplification of history. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_of_Extended_Freedom_of_Trade_(Sweden) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_of_Extended_Freedom_of_... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils_Ericson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils_Ericson [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ericsson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ericsson [4] https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husf%C3%B6rh%C3%B6r https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husf%C3%B6rh%C3%B6r

freefaler 3y ago

btw, auto dealerships are like that because territorial exclusivity by the large companies, not the "capitalism". because of capitlism, there are >1 auto dealership ...

itsoktocry 3y ago
>btw, auto dealerships are like that because territorial exclusivity by the large companies, not the "capitalism". The auto world is cut-throat competitive. There are dealers everywhere, and most cars and features are commoditized. In every class and price range there are easily substitutable vehicles. Tech people like to talk about the auto industry like the market is scandalous.
- freefaler 3y ago
  The problem is access to the tools by independent auto shops. There is a whole industry of alternative tool providers who are sniffing and reimplementing the protocols, because of the vendor lock-in.

keiferski 3y ago

Yeah I continue to not understand the “late capitalism” label of current events. Very little of what we have today can be called capitalist in the original, competition-focused sense of the term. Most markets are very regulated and anticompetitive.

krapp 3y ago
Capitalism in the original, competition-focused sense of the term has never existed in the real world, any more than Communism in the purely egalitarian stateless and classless sense. Late stage capitalism refers to the inevitable end-state of what capitalism actually evolves into, which is essentially oligarchy, preceding collapse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism
- keiferski 3y ago
  The fact that a pure thing never existed doesn’t mean that something more pure didn’t / can’t exist. That’s also not what late stage capitalism, the term, generally refers to. If a key part of capitalism is competition, then clearly whatever we have now is not very capitalist. The primary reason this term (late stage capitalism) is used is because people lack knowledge about economic history and can’t seem to operate on anything more complex than good-bad, capitalist-communist, private-public.
  - TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
    A key part of capitalism is rhetoric about competition. Oppressive monopoly is the inevitable outcome of "competitive" capitalism. The point is so obvious it's trivial to model mathematically. I believe there was even a board game invented to make the point.
    - keiferski 3y ago
      What do you think anti trust laws are? And do you think we have an abundance of them now?

tmcb 3y ago

> You can only do that if you have cornered the market. How does capitalism address the fact that so many companies have cornered their markets not on merit but on resource access inequality, and have now accumulated enough resources to engage in lobbying and legal harassment for a long time even if free-market "reforms" are eventually passed? Should these companies be closed based on their past record?

tored 3y ago

> You can only do that if you have cornered the market. Which happens over and over because we humans are flawed, thus every system we create will also be flawed. If capitalisms only works in theory then it is as good as communism.

keiferski 3y ago
Capitalism (or more specifically, elements of it like private ownership and the market economy) has resulted in the largest increase of living standards in history. See: China, India, ex-USSR countries like Poland.
- tored 3y ago
  Market economy is not necessary the same as capitalism, China is capitalist in some parts but it also a heavy state subsidized economy with a regulated market and public ownership. And the massive increase in living standard can be attributed to multiple factors that was all needed to make it possible, superposition as it is called in physics, e.g. a proper contracting framework, a literate and educated public, technological advances, deregulating markets from the old estates system, etc. We can take Sweden as a good example, yes the legislative change in 1864[1] that anyone could operate a business was crucial, but where did all the talent come from that actually created all those famous Swedish companies and inventions? Many came from the Swedish Army because Sweden was an old Great Power and the army needed many engineers to be able to build fortifications and such. Two of the most famous ones would be Nils Ericson[2] and his younger brother John Ericsson[3] But you also need qualified workers and it happens that Sweden had at the time one of the most literate population in the world because of the Swedish state church. In the old days Sweden was quite strict religiously and the Swedish state church had conducted Household Examinations since 1686[4] about general knowledge in the Bible and Luther's Small Catechism. You can't really run a modern industry with an illiterate public. Thus attributing everything to "capitalism" is gross simplification of history. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_of_Extended_Freedom_of_Trade_(Sweden) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_of_Extended_Freedom_of_... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils_Ericson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils_Ericson [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ericsson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ericsson [4] https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husf%C3%B6rh%C3%B6r https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husf%C3%B6rh%C3%B6r