4 ms·

Magnets are switching up the keyboard game

34 points by signa11 3y ago

perihelions 3y ago
- "If you want to go overboard, you can even create something akin to a macro by assigning multiple actions to the same key, so that a single keypress registers a different action when you’ve pressed half-way down, as you bottom out and when the switch pushes the keycap up again — and maybe another one somewhere in-between. I haven’t quite found a personal use case for this yet, but somebody surely will." That's horrifying. https://xkcd.com/1172/ https://xkcd.com/1172/
- smallmancontrov 3y ago
  The UX trend of mapping all functionality of small devices into a single weird morse code hybrid button is pretty much this, but yeah, it's horrifying.
- kps 3y ago
  There were electric typewriters that would repeat if you pressed a key beyond its normal bottom.
- llm_trw 3y ago
  I have caps remapped to crtl on press and esc on release, space mapped to alt on press and space on release and the two shift keys mapped to parens on release and shifts on press. It's quite common to do at least of one of these if you're using vim or emacs on linux.
- irobeth 3y ago
  "slam any key to continue"
- adolph 3y ago
  Wait until they add capacitance touch and "taptic engine" to keycaps. You could register different inputs to brushing a key different ways, or add mouse movement to g and h like those ThinkPad TrackPoints. Never going to have to leave the home row again.
- jareklupinski 3y ago
  for some reason i imagined this applying some force feedback back to your fingers halfway back up the keypress like if you made a typo, and the keyswitch pulsed the electromagnet to tap your finger on its way up
- willis936 3y ago
  Of course the real application is analog. Imagine being able to control movement speed in a game with keypress depth. Or, for the CAD adults in the room, a proper 6DOF tool without needing an additional clunky piece of hardware.
meepmorp 3y ago
Hall effect switches, because everything old is new again.
- llm_trw 3y ago
  When I was into this I 3d printer some quite interesting compliant mechanics as switches since you can engineer whatever response you want. It's possibly to have a fully mechanical keyboard that's also completely waterproof with these.
dotnet00 3y ago
Title made me think these would be keyboard switches in the same style as the "Unklicky" bed-leveling probes on 3d printers, where two magnets are used as a spring + as electrical contacts to complete a circuit. I figure that making these hall effect based switches is more tedious due to the calibration needed. As for applications though, if the keypress could be made into an analog output, the keys could act similarly to shoulder buttons on game controllers or allow WASD/arrow keys to act similarly to a joystick.
- z_zetetic_z 3y ago
  The wooting keyboards have been able to do this for years.
- constantcrying 3y ago
  >As for applications though, if the keypress could be made into an analog output, the keys could act similarly to shoulder buttons on game controllers or allow WASD/arrow keys to act similarly to a joystick. This isn't an "if" they are used exactly for that purpose already. What they can also do is change the length you need to press down to register an input, so you have a keyboard with variable sensitivity.
- inhumantsar 3y ago
  i had the same thought re: analog input but the more I think about it, the less the idea makes sense. take the Xbox controller triggers, those have a ton of travel. I don't know the exact amount but I wouldn't be surprised if it was multiple cm. a keyboard switch has single digit mm of travel, usually sub-5mm iirc. I have a hard time seeing how that could be enough travel to allow precise enough control even in forgiving games like GTA. they certainly are neat switches though. i'd like to try them out sometime.
  - dotnet00 3y ago
    The Steam Deck I have laying next to me seems to have around 6-7mm of travel on the shoulder triggers. Looks like these can do 4mm, so yeah I suppose there would be about half the precision.
ranger_danger 3y ago
>Brands like Akko, Drop, Ducky, Epomaker and Keychron became household names lolwhat.
- nusl 3y ago
  Yes, what. They are very well-known brands if you've ever looked deeper than surface level at keyboards.
  - andrewflnr 3y ago
    Which is still a far cry from "household name" by any reasonable definition. Most people don't care about keyboards.
- flumpcakes 3y ago
  > Akko, Drop, Ducky, Epomaker and Keychron I've heard of all of them apart from Epomaker and I'm not really into keyboard stuff (despite owning a split keyboard). I would say they are probably well known if you're always online and into techy geek nonsense. They're not as well known as, say, logitech. But even logitech is probably not a "household name" either. I think we forget in tech how much the world doesn't really care about tech.
- kyriakos 3y ago
  anyone who is into mechanical keyboards probably is aware of them. i own a keyboard from keychron for the past 2 years and been excellent. I did research a lot before buying.
xmonkee 3y ago
Collecting keyboards is one of the dumbest “hobbies” in reddit-land. Up there with collecting knives and guns and “EDC”. There is no skill involved, no physical or mental challenges, no cultural or aesthetic enrichment. Just fucking spending money on things that you will never actually use.
- johnwheeler 3y ago
  Unpopular opinion around here dude
- bil7 3y ago
  you're telling me spending $400 to improve the sound of your keypresses isn't worth it?
  - addandsubtract 3y ago
    Not when I can download[1] them. /s but not /s [1] https://mechvibes.com/ https://mechvibes.com/
- pc86 3y ago
  "I don't like this thing therefore it's stupid." Clearly you've never built a keyboard or shot a gun, there is plenty of physical and mental challenge if you want there to be. I've never gotten into knives but there's absolutely a huge physicality aspect if you go down the self defense rabbit hole there - huge in certain martial arts. But regardless, not everything needs to be a challenge and not everything needs to have "cultural or aesthetic enrichment" (although I'd absolutely disagree on your assertion there's no aesthetic component to keyboards or firearms). Feeling the need to diminish what other people find joy in is the hallmark of a sad person.
  - xmonkee 3y ago
    I didn't say building keyboards
- rokkamokka 3y ago
  Doesn't this go for all types of collection?
eviks 3y ago
> you can even create something akin to a macro by assigning multiple actions to the same key, so that a single keypress registers a different action That's cool, so would this allow for the keys to finally feel fully analogue like, say, a Volume wheel? So that you could change volume more if you press a key further? How many "steps" would be needed for that? > The one thing you can’t change, though, is the switch’s resistance so still no saving your weak pinky
- flumpcakes 3y ago
  I know people have been doing this with movement in video games - on a keyboard it's usually very stiff but on a controller you can nudge the stick and have your character walk very slowly. Now you can press the W key lightly and have your character walk slowly and the harder you press the key the faster they move - much like the analog sticks. I think it's pretty cool personally.
  - singleshot_ 3y ago
    Perhaps in applications like GarageBand which allow the user to play the keyboard like it was a piano keyboard, velocity / volume input can be sensed. Cool indeed.
  - eviks 3y ago
    Yes, gaming is the more immediate application for this, but this could potentially be helpful in better scrolling or mouse substitution - analog is great indeed vs binaries
- dotnet00 3y ago
  Would be interesting to see if using electromagnets for dynamically tuning switch resistance is practical. Eg using a fixed magnet to offer a baseline resistance, and a coil underneath to make slight adjustments.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
beeb 3y ago
No mention of inductive switches, that's odd! Typing this on my topre keyboard :P
- rowanG077 3y ago
  Inductive switches are the same as most other switches. They simply register or not. This is about something different.
z_zetetic_z 3y ago
If you want to see where the ultra of analogue keyboards is these days, then watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv6Rh8UNWlI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv6Rh8UNWlI It's a completely 3d printed, fully analog, fully per key adjustable activation depth, magnetic levitation, mega RGB keyboard. Absolutly insane. For sane people there's always the wooting HE https://wooting.io/wooting-60he https://wooting.io/wooting-60he which by most people's count is the best gaming keyboard money can buy right now.

34 points by signa11 3y ago

- "If you want to go overboard, you can even create something akin to a macro by assigning multiple actions to the same key, so that a single keypress registers a different action when you’ve pressed half-way down, as you bottom out and when the switch pushes the keycap up again — and maybe another one somewhere in-between. I haven’t quite found a personal use case for this yet, but somebody surely will." That's horrifying. https://xkcd.com/1172/ https://xkcd.com/1172/

smallmancontrov 3y ago
The UX trend of mapping all functionality of small devices into a single weird morse code hybrid button is pretty much this, but yeah, it's horrifying.
kps 3y ago
There were electric typewriters that would repeat if you pressed a key beyond its normal bottom.
llm_trw 3y ago
I have caps remapped to crtl on press and esc on release, space mapped to alt on press and space on release and the two shift keys mapped to parens on release and shifts on press. It's quite common to do at least of one of these if you're using vim or emacs on linux.
irobeth 3y ago
"slam any key to continue"
adolph 3y ago
Wait until they add capacitance touch and "taptic engine" to keycaps. You could register different inputs to brushing a key different ways, or add mouse movement to g and h like those ThinkPad TrackPoints. Never going to have to leave the home row again.
jareklupinski 3y ago
for some reason i imagined this applying some force feedback back to your fingers halfway back up the keypress like if you made a typo, and the keyswitch pulsed the electromagnet to tap your finger on its way up
willis936 3y ago
Of course the real application is analog. Imagine being able to control movement speed in a game with keypress depth. Or, for the CAD adults in the room, a proper 6DOF tool without needing an additional clunky piece of hardware.

meepmorp 3y ago

Hall effect switches, because everything old is new again.

llm_trw 3y ago
When I was into this I 3d printer some quite interesting compliant mechanics as switches since you can engineer whatever response you want. It's possibly to have a fully mechanical keyboard that's also completely waterproof with these.

dotnet00 3y ago

Title made me think these would be keyboard switches in the same style as the "Unklicky" bed-leveling probes on 3d printers, where two magnets are used as a spring + as electrical contacts to complete a circuit. I figure that making these hall effect based switches is more tedious due to the calibration needed. As for applications though, if the keypress could be made into an analog output, the keys could act similarly to shoulder buttons on game controllers or allow WASD/arrow keys to act similarly to a joystick.

z_zetetic_z 3y ago
The wooting keyboards have been able to do this for years.
constantcrying 3y ago
>As for applications though, if the keypress could be made into an analog output, the keys could act similarly to shoulder buttons on game controllers or allow WASD/arrow keys to act similarly to a joystick. This isn't an "if" they are used exactly for that purpose already. What they can also do is change the length you need to press down to register an input, so you have a keyboard with variable sensitivity.
inhumantsar 3y ago
i had the same thought re: analog input but the more I think about it, the less the idea makes sense. take the Xbox controller triggers, those have a ton of travel. I don't know the exact amount but I wouldn't be surprised if it was multiple cm. a keyboard switch has single digit mm of travel, usually sub-5mm iirc. I have a hard time seeing how that could be enough travel to allow precise enough control even in forgiving games like GTA. they certainly are neat switches though. i'd like to try them out sometime.
- dotnet00 3y ago
  The Steam Deck I have laying next to me seems to have around 6-7mm of travel on the shoulder triggers. Looks like these can do 4mm, so yeah I suppose there would be about half the precision.

ranger_danger 3y ago

>Brands like Akko, Drop, Ducky, Epomaker and Keychron became household names lolwhat.

nusl 3y ago
Yes, what. They are very well-known brands if you've ever looked deeper than surface level at keyboards.
- andrewflnr 3y ago
  Which is still a far cry from "household name" by any reasonable definition. Most people don't care about keyboards.
flumpcakes 3y ago
> Akko, Drop, Ducky, Epomaker and Keychron I've heard of all of them apart from Epomaker and I'm not really into keyboard stuff (despite owning a split keyboard). I would say they are probably well known if you're always online and into techy geek nonsense. They're not as well known as, say, logitech. But even logitech is probably not a "household name" either. I think we forget in tech how much the world doesn't really care about tech.
kyriakos 3y ago
anyone who is into mechanical keyboards probably is aware of them. i own a keyboard from keychron for the past 2 years and been excellent. I did research a lot before buying.

xmonkee 3y ago

Collecting keyboards is one of the dumbest “hobbies” in reddit-land. Up there with collecting knives and guns and “EDC”. There is no skill involved, no physical or mental challenges, no cultural or aesthetic enrichment. Just fucking spending money on things that you will never actually use.

johnwheeler 3y ago
Unpopular opinion around here dude
bil7 3y ago
you're telling me spending $400 to improve the sound of your keypresses isn't worth it?
- addandsubtract 3y ago
  Not when I can download[1] them. /s but not /s [1] https://mechvibes.com/ https://mechvibes.com/
pc86 3y ago
"I don't like this thing therefore it's stupid." Clearly you've never built a keyboard or shot a gun, there is plenty of physical and mental challenge if you want there to be. I've never gotten into knives but there's absolutely a huge physicality aspect if you go down the self defense rabbit hole there - huge in certain martial arts. But regardless, not everything needs to be a challenge and not everything needs to have "cultural or aesthetic enrichment" (although I'd absolutely disagree on your assertion there's no aesthetic component to keyboards or firearms). Feeling the need to diminish what other people find joy in is the hallmark of a sad person.
- xmonkee 3y ago
  I didn't say building keyboards
rokkamokka 3y ago
Doesn't this go for all types of collection?

eviks 3y ago

> you can even create something akin to a macro by assigning multiple actions to the same key, so that a single keypress registers a different action That's cool, so would this allow for the keys to finally feel fully analogue like, say, a Volume wheel? So that you could change volume more if you press a key further? How many "steps" would be needed for that? > The one thing you can’t change, though, is the switch’s resistance so still no saving your weak pinky

flumpcakes 3y ago
I know people have been doing this with movement in video games - on a keyboard it's usually very stiff but on a controller you can nudge the stick and have your character walk very slowly. Now you can press the W key lightly and have your character walk slowly and the harder you press the key the faster they move - much like the analog sticks. I think it's pretty cool personally.
- singleshot_ 3y ago
  Perhaps in applications like GarageBand which allow the user to play the keyboard like it was a piano keyboard, velocity / volume input can be sensed. Cool indeed.
- eviks 3y ago
  Yes, gaming is the more immediate application for this, but this could potentially be helpful in better scrolling or mouse substitution - analog is great indeed vs binaries
dotnet00 3y ago
Would be interesting to see if using electromagnets for dynamically tuning switch resistance is practical. Eg using a fixed magnet to offer a baseline resistance, and a coil underneath to make slight adjustments.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

beeb 3y ago

No mention of inductive switches, that's odd! Typing this on my topre keyboard :P

rowanG077 3y ago
Inductive switches are the same as most other switches. They simply register or not. This is about something different.

z_zetetic_z 3y ago

If you want to see where the ultra of analogue keyboards is these days, then watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv6Rh8UNWlI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv6Rh8UNWlI It's a completely 3d printed, fully analog, fully per key adjustable activation depth, magnetic levitation, mega RGB keyboard. Absolutly insane. For sane people there's always the wooting HE https://wooting.io/wooting-60he https://wooting.io/wooting-60he which by most people's count is the best gaming keyboard money can buy right now.