3 ms·

In reality there is very little meaning, there is just this false sense there is that keep all these bad defaults in place. Like, is it word forward or word ba

• lawn 3y ago
  It does make sense because Vim by default is forward looking, so `w` moves forward a word and the secondary effect is to move backward with `W`. As another example `diw` reads "Delete Inner Word", or `dap` reads "Delete Around Paragraph". It's way easier to just learn the new new keys and rely on the mnemonics IMO.
  • eviks 3y ago
    Still doesn't, the forward looking part is misapplied for movements where you have both directions in separate keys (this principle could work for ops similar to tT (forward by default, backward shifted)), just like you can't explain why B is moving backwards by Words, not characters or something else (is there another important context you need to know that "vim is word looking by default"?). Or why it's not Below to move down And in your D example your skipped the first part - why is it not delete forward/backward by character/word? Why is it not Dump for paste just like there is this weird Yank for copy? Why not Do to execute some command? Or maybe D should do something tied to its looks. After all X is delete based on visual mnemonic of crossing something out It's even easier to learn relying on physical position mnemonics (like of your index J is go down by line, then go down by page is also index, but lower, so M). Or have adjacent fingers move left/right just like they move in cursors (Btw, letter based mnemonics are also not useful for most of the world since they're tied to English)
    • lawn 3y ago
      Just because you could apply a different meaning to a character doesn't change the fact that some meaning, once learned, is more helpful than only relying on physical positions. Combining meaning with a physical position is even more superior than purely relying on one approach. And to me, it was far easier to switch layout while relying on mnemonics than on key position, and this continues to be true even when I add new keybindings now when I switch between multiple layouts. Maybe other brains works differently though.
      • eviks 3y ago
        > Just because you could apply a different meaning to a character doesn't change the fact that some meaning, once learned, is more helpful than only relying on physical positions. It does precisely that - because "once learned" muscle memory / spatial orientation would beat your conscious efforts to map ambiguous semantic rules every time since they're more common/primitive/intuitive ("move finger up to move up") > And to me, it was far easier to switch layout while relying on mnemonics than on key position So wait, you've seriously tried home row cursor movements in different layouts, then seriously tried moving to keycap-based cursor, and found home row keys to be worse despite their objective ergonomic benefit that the alternative layouts tout as their benefit over qwertys?
        • lawn 3y ago
          I feel like you're almost being deliberately obtuse when you're ignoring the context that it's about learning the movements in the first place. This isn't productive in any way.
    • eimrine 3y ago
      > you can't explain why B is moving backwards by Words, not characters or something else (is there another important context you need to know that "vim is word looking by default"?). Yes, there is some concept inside of this. Some commands are singular such as zz, some are paired (allmost all), some are double-paired, and only one set of commands is triple-paired, this is the list: w W b B e E ge gE Take care to find the logic by your own, please.
      • eviks 3y ago
        I took care, found the logic seriously flawed, explained some of the reasons above. Take care to address the substance, please
        • eimrine 3y ago
          I don't see your attempts to understand the logic I have written. Why don't to RTFM what is the connection between the 8 commands I have provided?
          • eviks 3y ago
            But I do see how you fail to understand the failure of this logic, and me reading the manual again won't help you get it. So why don't you correct the assumption that you're the only one who reads manuals and try to think about the substance of the conversation?
            • eimrine 3y ago
              Listen me apprentice. You gave us the question about why b command goes backwards while most of backwards commands are capitalized with an assumption that it has to contain some logic unknown by you. You have received the logic from me. What fucking else do you want from me?
              • eviks 3y ago
                No, my ignorant pseudo-master, you couldn't even understand my question before trying to shrowd your supposed answer in the mystery of a manual: it wasn't about capitalization, but object type. So I've received nothing from you, bBwW doesn't cover it. And I don't want anything from you, it's pretty clear you can add nothing useful to this conversation with such a combination of arrogance and ignorance
• johncoltrane 3y ago
  Single-letter commands have a clear meaning once you have learned enough of Vim. https://stackoverflow.com/a/7411851/546861 https://stackoverflow.com/a/7411851/546861 > Like, is it word forward or word backwards? W doesn't tell you. W doesn't have to tell you anything. W being the reverse of w is a grammar rule that is supposed to be learned and internalized, like the other grammar rules (count, etc.). > So if you're used to qwerty W it makes perfect sense to keep the much stronger muscle memory intact when switching layouts and use non-W in the same spot No. What would make perfect sense would be to retrain your muscle memory around your new layout.
  • eviks 3y ago
    The clear meaning of "h only makes sense on the keyboard used by vi's author" is that it's meaningless for everyone but the vi's author. And "once you've learned enough" is self-fulfilling for any set W is not the reverse of w in my comment once you read that it's about direction And it makes no sense to go through the great pain of retraining when you can't explain the benefit