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> The Lucifer is always depicted from the Bible's point of view. To the best of my limited understanding, very little is said of Satan, at all, in either the O

> The Lucifer is always depicted from the Bible's point of view. To the best of my limited understanding, very little is said of Satan, at all, in either the OT or the NT. What little is said, doesn't actually plainly state that the Serpent from the Garden of Eden is Satan, or that this is the same entity as Lucifer (or any other angel, fallen or otherwise). Satan, as in the Christian Devil, is very much a thing of the Judeo-Christian mythology, the stuff that didn't make it into any of the books. Not much written down about it (think of what it might mean to be caught with such books?), just stories passed down orally, maybe in whispers. > And the Bible insists that only its words are true. You must not trust anything else I'm an atheist myself, but this seems like a particularly asinine interpretation of anything you might find in the Christian Bible. I think you're all missing a conundrum that has some similarities to those we find in computer science. If you have two or more invisible, incorporeal entities, one or more of which may lie and be the impostor of the other, how can you determine who is who? What if some or all have multiple names? Can you even determine if there are multiple entities, perhaps you are mistaken and there's only one? For instance, when Mormons or Muslims say they worship the same deity as Christians, why should their opinion be taken at face value (regardless of whether you are a believer or atheist)?

082349872349872 3y ago
If you have invisible, incorporeal entity G, and invisible, incorporeal entity H, both of which are infinitely perfect and not inferior in dignity to anything else, then by the rule of indirect equality: x=y ≡ (∀z. z≤x ≡ z≤y) G is H. (or at least isomorphic to H, if one allows one's deities to merely be preordered instead of partially ordered. However, in this setting one would be unable to distinguish even a single religion's deity from Her identical twin Latonya, which probably leads to greater theological problems than it solves...)
- araes 3y ago
  Per the chain above, if you also exist in some state where you are effectively, permanently downhill in computation, then entities which exist at some state upward are "effectively" indistinguishable, no matter their relative "up". In Greek theology, all "deities" are effectively "up" and normal humans have very little way of telling which entity is "really" in charge. To much information disparity. Zeus, Hera? Hephaestus? Has it already done the entire Titans storyline again with Zeus, and humans don't even know? Below some resolution, the lines on the chip are indistinguishable from a pixel. [1] Most creatures need significant advancement to comprehend anything other than "glowing texture." [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312346271/figure/fig13/AS:668254703976480@1536335745893/Optical-reconstruction-of-the-microprocessor-to-obtain-its-connectome-In-11-the-A.png https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312346271/figure/fi...
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    > ...done the entire Titans storyline again with Zeus, and humans don't even know? Ancient Mythology theorists suggest it has been done, with the advent of the "Age of Pisces", and humans have bumper stickers to attest to it. Could it be true? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38761574 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38761574 > normal humans have very little way of telling which entity is "really" in charge The rivalries (enacted with human and demigod pawns) in the Iliad suggest that even the Olympians didn't know they had a King and instead acted as an (infighting and infidelitous?) autonomous collective. "You can't expect to wield supreme executive power, just 'cause you got your dad to chunder all your siblings!" (note that a tradition of apothanatophagy has been carried over from the Olympian age into the Galilean)
- TeaBrain 3y ago
  It is not even necessary to think of it like that. Judeo-Christians (including Mormons) and Muslims claim to worship the god of the same figure called Abraham/Ibrahim of Canaan, who had sons named Isaac and Ishmael/Ismail. According to the Judeo-Christians, Isaac had a son named Jacob whose sons formed the twelve tribes of Israel, while according to Islam, Ishmael/Ismail was the ancestor of Muhammad.

082349872349872 3y ago

If you have invisible, incorporeal entity G, and invisible, incorporeal entity H, both of which are infinitely perfect and not inferior in dignity to anything else, then by the rule of indirect equality: x=y ≡ (∀z. z≤x ≡ z≤y) G is H. (or at least isomorphic to H, if one allows one's deities to merely be preordered instead of partially ordered. However, in this setting one would be unable to distinguish even a single religion's deity from Her identical twin Latonya, which probably leads to greater theological problems than it solves...)

araes 3y ago
Per the chain above, if you also exist in some state where you are effectively, permanently downhill in computation, then entities which exist at some state upward are "effectively" indistinguishable, no matter their relative "up". In Greek theology, all "deities" are effectively "up" and normal humans have very little way of telling which entity is "really" in charge. To much information disparity. Zeus, Hera? Hephaestus? Has it already done the entire Titans storyline again with Zeus, and humans don't even know? Below some resolution, the lines on the chip are indistinguishable from a pixel. [1] Most creatures need significant advancement to comprehend anything other than "glowing texture." [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312346271/figure/fig13/AS:668254703976480@1536335745893/Optical-reconstruction-of-the-microprocessor-to-obtain-its-connectome-In-11-the-A.png https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312346271/figure/fi...
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  > ...done the entire Titans storyline again with Zeus, and humans don't even know? Ancient Mythology theorists suggest it has been done, with the advent of the "Age of Pisces", and humans have bumper stickers to attest to it. Could it be true? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38761574 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38761574 > normal humans have very little way of telling which entity is "really" in charge The rivalries (enacted with human and demigod pawns) in the Iliad suggest that even the Olympians didn't know they had a King and instead acted as an (infighting and infidelitous?) autonomous collective. "You can't expect to wield supreme executive power, just 'cause you got your dad to chunder all your siblings!" (note that a tradition of apothanatophagy has been carried over from the Olympian age into the Galilean)
TeaBrain 3y ago
It is not even necessary to think of it like that. Judeo-Christians (including Mormons) and Muslims claim to worship the god of the same figure called Abraham/Ibrahim of Canaan, who had sons named Isaac and Ishmael/Ismail. According to the Judeo-Christians, Isaac had a son named Jacob whose sons formed the twelve tribes of Israel, while according to Islam, Ishmael/Ismail was the ancestor of Muhammad.