4 ms·

Imagine how much digging went into drawing those pictures

johnny_pearseed 3y ago
It's fairly amazing the amount of labor that went into projects in the past. Now as the value of someone's time went up, it feels not economically feasible to do these anymore.
- berkes 3y ago
  > economically feasible Luckily it's a University project. And economic feasibility does not apply. Or should not. Unfortunately some universities do take this into consideration, rather than just scientific value.
- walthamstow 3y ago
  Not to mention that half of the people doing the projects, at least in Britain, were rentier aristocrats who didn't need to work
- paganel 3y ago
  The Baumol effect [1] all over again, I'm thinking about it more and more lately. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect
w-ll 3y ago
How was this captured? I mean they are just drawing but they seem relativly new. I'd kinda guess they were lab grown with some sort of imaging on the 2 sides, but they are 2d drawings. Did they really dig them up and and map them out... Maybe water them with a fluorescent dye to get depth info... Super curious.
- GauntletWizard 3y ago
  They're pen drawings, done by hand. Most of the history of Botany was done this way - Drawings by skilled artists, using life samples painstakingly removed from the soil, as was most of the history of biology and physiology. You can grow plants specifically for this purpose, using less dense soil so that you can more easily extract the root system without damaging it.
  - Tempest1981 3y ago
    Imagine the patience required, first to wait years until the roots are established, then painstakingly unearth them.
  - yreg 3y ago
    Wouldn't the soil density affect the root system?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - pvaldes 3y ago
      Yes. There aren't two root systems identical. I assume that this plants were cultured in a sandy or hydroponic mix. But the main goal is the generalization and to know how long roots can grow. For trees they wanted to know also if roots can grow up the hill against gravity (they do it all the time). This is useful to understand how stable is the structure and how useful to fix soil in place and fix erosion processes. The dune melon root is particularly funny. You can almost hear the root sniffing water right and left in the Namibian desert
- FredPret 3y ago
  My initial ideas were injecting the tree with a chemical and zapping it with radar, and growing it hydroponically in translucent gravel. But this seems wildly impractical. They probably just have a team of students dig them up with a brush, one layer of soil at a time.
  - barbazoo 3y ago
    I imagine that too. How would you map the root system of a tree. Can’t grow a tree in the lab. (Someone’s gonna reply with a link where someone grew a tree in a lab but you know what I mean)
    - bcraven 3y ago
      https://www.ediblegeography.com/rootstock-archaeology/ https://www.ediblegeography.com/rootstock-archaeology/ There's some detail here about how British researchers developed apple tree rootstocks, including photos of whole trees that have been excavated and reassembled. Couple it with this documentary: https://docuwiki.net/index.php?title=Apples:_British_to_the_Core https://docuwiki.net/index.php?title=Apples:_British_to_the_...
  - anitil 3y ago
    There's a computerphile video [0] that looks at one way people take 3d x-rays to look at plant roots (I haven't re-watched it yet so unsure if it's related to the article) Edit: Look at about 6:50 in the video for a render of a root system. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrl__J4vYok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrl__J4vYok
  - andrewflnr 3y ago
    With the gravel thing, you wouldn't necessarily even get the same structure as in the wild. Plants can grow to fit their surroundings.
  - shellfishgene 3y ago
    Aren't all the drawings just one 2d slice? You would just have to cut the soil in a line through the plant with a sharp spade and remove enough on one side to make the drawing.
Faaak 3y ago
Yeah, the methodology here is bothering me. Did they really dig 4m+ deep? Must be really hard work, but impressive nevertheless. Maybe they did use some water spades to ease up the digging?

It's fairly amazing the amount of labor that went into projects in the past. Now as the value of someone's time went up, it feels not economically feasible to do these anymore.

berkes 3y ago
> economically feasible Luckily it's a University project. And economic feasibility does not apply. Or should not. Unfortunately some universities do take this into consideration, rather than just scientific value.
walthamstow 3y ago
Not to mention that half of the people doing the projects, at least in Britain, were rentier aristocrats who didn't need to work
paganel 3y ago
The Baumol effect [1] all over again, I'm thinking about it more and more lately. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect

w-ll 3y ago

How was this captured? I mean they are just drawing but they seem relativly new. I'd kinda guess they were lab grown with some sort of imaging on the 2 sides, but they are 2d drawings. Did they really dig them up and and map them out... Maybe water them with a fluorescent dye to get depth info... Super curious.

GauntletWizard 3y ago
They're pen drawings, done by hand. Most of the history of Botany was done this way - Drawings by skilled artists, using life samples painstakingly removed from the soil, as was most of the history of biology and physiology. You can grow plants specifically for this purpose, using less dense soil so that you can more easily extract the root system without damaging it.
- Tempest1981 3y ago
  Imagine the patience required, first to wait years until the roots are established, then painstakingly unearth them.
- yreg 3y ago
  Wouldn't the soil density affect the root system?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - pvaldes 3y ago
    Yes. There aren't two root systems identical. I assume that this plants were cultured in a sandy or hydroponic mix. But the main goal is the generalization and to know how long roots can grow. For trees they wanted to know also if roots can grow up the hill against gravity (they do it all the time). This is useful to understand how stable is the structure and how useful to fix soil in place and fix erosion processes. The dune melon root is particularly funny. You can almost hear the root sniffing water right and left in the Namibian desert
FredPret 3y ago
My initial ideas were injecting the tree with a chemical and zapping it with radar, and growing it hydroponically in translucent gravel. But this seems wildly impractical. They probably just have a team of students dig them up with a brush, one layer of soil at a time.
- barbazoo 3y ago
  I imagine that too. How would you map the root system of a tree. Can’t grow a tree in the lab. (Someone’s gonna reply with a link where someone grew a tree in a lab but you know what I mean)
  - bcraven 3y ago
    https://www.ediblegeography.com/rootstock-archaeology/ https://www.ediblegeography.com/rootstock-archaeology/ There's some detail here about how British researchers developed apple tree rootstocks, including photos of whole trees that have been excavated and reassembled. Couple it with this documentary: https://docuwiki.net/index.php?title=Apples:_British_to_the_Core https://docuwiki.net/index.php?title=Apples:_British_to_the_...
- anitil 3y ago
  There's a computerphile video [0] that looks at one way people take 3d x-rays to look at plant roots (I haven't re-watched it yet so unsure if it's related to the article) Edit: Look at about 6:50 in the video for a render of a root system. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrl__J4vYok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrl__J4vYok
- andrewflnr 3y ago
  With the gravel thing, you wouldn't necessarily even get the same structure as in the wild. Plants can grow to fit their surroundings.
- shellfishgene 3y ago
  Aren't all the drawings just one 2d slice? You would just have to cut the soil in a line through the plant with a sharp spade and remove enough on one side to make the drawing.

Faaak 3y ago

Yeah, the methodology here is bothering me. Did they really dig 4m+ deep? Must be really hard work, but impressive nevertheless. Maybe they did use some water spades to ease up the digging?