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So, how do we stop people lionising "strong men"? The West has a very big problem with cults of celebrity. And we both know that's dangerous. People put folks u

So, how do we stop people lionising "strong men"? The West has a very big problem with cults of celebrity. And we both know that's dangerous. People put folks up on a pedestal just because they conned some other people out of lots of money. Meanwhile we mock and marginalise the actual quiet competence of the dying middle classes and ordinary professionals that run things. I think a first step is to re-evaluate "success". The billionaires are not successful humans, as people. They are simply rich.

wolverine876 2y ago
> So, how do we stop people lionising "strong men"? We have the solutions and have, perhaps not incidentally, discarded them in last 10-20 years: Postmodernism - yes, I know the reaction to that outrageous idea - is at its heart a distrust of power as corrupting and its application as necessarily evil. Power is the Ring; Gandalf's mission was to stop the Enemy without raw power, but by defeating despair and arousing people's goodness, honor, and courage (e.g., the clearest example being Theoden). Democracy: No kings, no aristrocrats, no masters; all created equal; liberty and justice for all; every one's opinion as good as another's; everyone is equally trusted to live their own life, make their own choices, choose their own words and religion; everyone gets an equal vote and is a valid juror. To assert greater power was a sin; megalomania was transparently ridiculous. Remember the humility of Washington, Lincoln, etc. Eary American Protestantism (I'm open to better terms, and I can't define this one well): Humility, simplicity, service to others as the ultimate measure; charity; personal wealth almost an embarassment of greed; the Golden Rule; etc. I remember a New Yorker article about such a culture even on Wall Street in (iirc) the 1980s; high walls around homes in the suburbs were frowned upon as arrogant and not engaged in the community; the head of one bank wore a cheap watch and soon everyone else did too. We have all that, we know all that. Those who want to seize power try - for obvious reasons - to say they are impossible or to ostracize them. The failure is that leaders who know better - who should remember Washington, Lincoln, Eisenhower, so many more - haven't bothered to pick up the banner from where it was dropped. I think that's all we need.
- nonrandomstring 2y ago
  I'm so glad I scrolled down to pick up this reply this evening. It made my day - which was already an otherwise good day at the beach. Shame this forum is not great for long-form conversation. Let's pick it up again another day. Anyway, you know where I am (@cybershow.uk).
xialvjun 2y ago
> So, how do we stop people lionising "strong men"? Prostitute literature. https://www.6parknews.com/newspark/view.php?app=news&act=view&nid=659542 https://www.6parknews.com/newspark/view.php?app=news&act=vie... Deconstructing the heroic view of history, no matter what the real history is, makes us understand that every so-called strong person can be as despicable as a prostitute, so that we can only focus on what they are currently doing, not on their past identity

wolverine876 2y ago

> So, how do we stop people lionising "strong men"? We have the solutions and have, perhaps not incidentally, discarded them in last 10-20 years: Postmodernism - yes, I know the reaction to that outrageous idea - is at its heart a distrust of power as corrupting and its application as necessarily evil. Power is the Ring; Gandalf's mission was to stop the Enemy without raw power, but by defeating despair and arousing people's goodness, honor, and courage (e.g., the clearest example being Theoden). Democracy: No kings, no aristrocrats, no masters; all created equal; liberty and justice for all; every one's opinion as good as another's; everyone is equally trusted to live their own life, make their own choices, choose their own words and religion; everyone gets an equal vote and is a valid juror. To assert greater power was a sin; megalomania was transparently ridiculous. Remember the humility of Washington, Lincoln, etc. Eary American Protestantism (I'm open to better terms, and I can't define this one well): Humility, simplicity, service to others as the ultimate measure; charity; personal wealth almost an embarassment of greed; the Golden Rule; etc. I remember a New Yorker article about such a culture even on Wall Street in (iirc) the 1980s; high walls around homes in the suburbs were frowned upon as arrogant and not engaged in the community; the head of one bank wore a cheap watch and soon everyone else did too. We have all that, we know all that. Those who want to seize power try - for obvious reasons - to say they are impossible or to ostracize them. The failure is that leaders who know better - who should remember Washington, Lincoln, Eisenhower, so many more - haven't bothered to pick up the banner from where it was dropped. I think that's all we need.

nonrandomstring 2y ago
I'm so glad I scrolled down to pick up this reply this evening. It made my day - which was already an otherwise good day at the beach. Shame this forum is not great for long-form conversation. Let's pick it up again another day. Anyway, you know where I am (@cybershow.uk).

xialvjun 2y ago

> So, how do we stop people lionising "strong men"? Prostitute literature. https://www.6parknews.com/newspark/view.php?app=news&act=view&nid=659542 https://www.6parknews.com/newspark/view.php?app=news&act=vie... Deconstructing the heroic view of history, no matter what the real history is, makes us understand that every so-called strong person can be as despicable as a prostitute, so that we can only focus on what they are currently doing, not on their past identity