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God's Word says Satan is permitted to run this world, encouraging us to think his way, until judgement comes later. He does it by appealing to their sinful desi

God's Word says Satan is permitted to run this world, encouraging us to think his way, until judgement comes later. He does it by appealing to their sinful desires. Our own selfishness does the rest. "in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the Good News of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn on them" (2 Cor. 4:4) So, let's contrast the truth. In my other comment, I mentioned what the sinful kids and Satan are destined for. It's not pretty. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39973866 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39973866 What about heaven? In Genesis 2, before the Fall, man had fellowship with God, hung out with each other, did work, and rested. God said all good things are a gift from Him. If it's not sinful, it might exist in heaven. For its nature, fruit of the Spirit is "love, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control." So, imagine all human activities that are fun and embodied with those virtues. That's Heaven. We have a taste of it here on Earth in the Church. We mostly go about our day, do our jobs, spend time with our families, and enjoy our hobbies. In church service, we worship God together and serve others in love. In spare time, we hang out, enjoy good food, go on vacation together, play games, share stories, etc. The problems in churches come from our sinful natures which God will eliminate (called glorification) once our time here is up. So, one place has us separated from everyone, in a lake of fire, and burning non-stop. Satan will be there, too. The other is every good thing you can imagine on Earth done in a better way, other things you can't imagine, your friends there, and the very presence of God giving you fullness of joy. Christ and His Heaven are the obvious choice. Anyone suffering here on Earth are also told to keep their eye on the prize which is our future inheritance.

AlbertCory 3y ago
While I will Vouch for your right to say that, and I find the professional atheists like Dawkins to be a bunch of a-holes: Personally, I think that when you're dead, you're just dead. Like sleep, except you don't wake up or dream. When your neurons are shutting off, they probably put on one hell of a show for you. Just like the show they put on that convinces you that "consciousness" is a real thing, and you have a "soul." It's not and you don't. But like I said, I think what you believe is probably good for humans, on the whole, and I don't condemn it at all.
- nickpsecurity 3y ago
  I appreciate your kindness. The brain dying might indeed put on some kind of show. Having had an out of body experience (i.e. electrocution), I'll confirm it does make people open to an afterlife. Then, I was quite opposed to religion later. Then, God's Word proved true, it claims these other things, and so I have to believe it over my personal opinion. Our faith is about objective truth after all. Getting to the root, the Word can be confirmed by internal knowledge or outside evidence. Most come to faith by God drawing us in as we hear or read His Word with a humble, seeking attitude. His sheep hear His voice. I recommend starting in John for that while asking who Jesus is and what we must do. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1&version=ESV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1&version=... For external evidence, the Word was confirmed in more ways than most things people believe. It's more rational than many beliefs. I summarized that here: https://www.gethisword.com/evidence.html https://www.gethisword.com/evidence.html I've prayed that you find Him through any of these methods. That He also helps you better face anything in your life, too. I'm glad God has already shown you the goodness in what He does.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    A note for owendlamb and you: I have no interest in debating this with you. However, I do have a suggestion, which Gary Luckenbaugh (not an HN'er, I don't think) took from me, and is delighted he did: Start a Substack channel. It can be free (like mine). Gary has one on the BASIC language, and he's thrilled when hundreds of people all over the world read his posts. On HN you don't know how many even saw your post, but on Substack you will. You'll probably find that there are already a lot of religious channels, but who knows -- maybe yours will stand out!
    - nickpsecurity 3y ago
      I appreciate the tip. I might do that sometime as a YouTube alternative. I don’t really try to promote myself or anything, though. In the Great Commission, Jesus commanded believers to take His message to the world so they won’t perish. He and the Apostles always went wherever people were already gathering or to those unreached. Likewise, I go to places with people from many walks of life to meet them, learn from them, bless them, and share Christ, too. HN is quite a blessing because I get to see most of that happen here. Except for Christ and His Word which I talk about when the occasion arises. I really do enjoy meeting all of you. :)
lo_zamoyski 3y ago
> So, one place has us separated from everyone, in a lake of fire, and burning non-stop. Satan will be there, too. This is a curious statement, as the subject is Dante, and the "Inferno" shows us not a huge lake of fire with all the damned burning within it, but rather a diverse Hell in which one's torment reflects one's vices. This has a theological resonance, as the very nature of Hell is first and foremost the fulfillment of one's corrupt and sinful desires, it is God letting you have exactly what you want, your dark little heart's desire (the logical outcome of having been created a free being; Matthew 6:21[0] captures this quite nicely). When you die, your orientation becomes fixed forever, and if it isn't on the Summum Bonum, the Highest Good, the only thing capable of satisfying Man's heart, then it will be some lesser real or apparent good. This is the consummation of utter hopelessness and despair. And what is at the very center of Hell in the "Inferno" if not a lake of fire? An absolutely frigid place, a frozen lake, with Satan lodged permanently in the ice up to his waist, with every flap of his wings making the place even colder. Fire is actually a better metaphor for God (even when we speak of the fire of God's just wrath, a kind of friction resulting from our evil will colliding with the Will of God). If God is the Logos, and Logos is like fire, and God so often is represented by fire, by its dynamism, then the opposite is the lifelessness of sin, a world of ice and death, a cold void. [0] https://biblia.com/bible/esv/matthew/6/21 https://biblia.com/bible/esv/matthew/6/21
- JdeBP 3y ago
  There is of course the old rec.humour.funny posting, that was far earlier a humorous journal article from the 1970s, that demonstrates with Biblical references and basic chemistry and physics that Heaven is a lot hotter than Hell.
- nickpsecurity 3y ago
  Re the subject. On HN, we often discuss the article, other content related to the article, and peripheral points. Many often prefer the original source over adaptations, too. In this case, I referenced “God’s Word” to make peripheral points about the original source material instead of Dante’s own work. So, you’re certainly right. I went to a factual source with evidence I linked elsewhere instead of the fictional work. That source said you and I would be in Hell if we didn’t take steps to avoid it. A critical topic that gets no attention here. So, I’m covering it. We can know it will be fire, not ice, since the God who created Hell talked about it so much during His time here: https://www.crossway.org/articles/jesus-said-more-about-hell-than-anyone-in-the-bible/ https://www.crossway.org/articles/jesus-said-more-about-hell... It’s not some consequence of our thoughts or feelings or symbolism. It’s an actual place… an objective punishment…. justice and wrath… our sovereign ruler pours out on His enemies. It has a number of descriptions that make us wonder how literal or symbolic they are. While none are ice, many talk about flame, lake of fire, and smoke in quite a literal way. Far as Satan, God’s Word says he goes into the lake of fire at the appointed time for his defeat. Revelation 20 captures much of the judgement of Satan and people without Christ’s forgiveness: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev.+20&version=ESV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev.+20&version... One other thing. God’s wrath is described as a consuming fire. The book of Nahum is all about how horrifying it is. Ice, or deadly cold, makes your body slow down until you nod off dead. Fire wakes you up to fully alert as you scream running away from it. If your nerves and organs were indestructible, then you’d be stuck with that maximum moment of pain every second of your life. Hell might be eternal fire because it’s more horrifying that way.

AlbertCory 3y ago

While I will Vouch for your right to say that, and I find the professional atheists like Dawkins to be a bunch of a-holes: Personally, I think that when you're dead, you're just dead. Like sleep, except you don't wake up or dream. When your neurons are shutting off, they probably put on one hell of a show for you. Just like the show they put on that convinces you that "consciousness" is a real thing, and you have a "soul." It's not and you don't. But like I said, I think what you believe is probably good for humans, on the whole, and I don't condemn it at all.

nickpsecurity 3y ago
I appreciate your kindness. The brain dying might indeed put on some kind of show. Having had an out of body experience (i.e. electrocution), I'll confirm it does make people open to an afterlife. Then, I was quite opposed to religion later. Then, God's Word proved true, it claims these other things, and so I have to believe it over my personal opinion. Our faith is about objective truth after all. Getting to the root, the Word can be confirmed by internal knowledge or outside evidence. Most come to faith by God drawing us in as we hear or read His Word with a humble, seeking attitude. His sheep hear His voice. I recommend starting in John for that while asking who Jesus is and what we must do. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1&version=ESV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1&version=... For external evidence, the Word was confirmed in more ways than most things people believe. It's more rational than many beliefs. I summarized that here: https://www.gethisword.com/evidence.html https://www.gethisword.com/evidence.html I've prayed that you find Him through any of these methods. That He also helps you better face anything in your life, too. I'm glad God has already shown you the goodness in what He does.
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  A note for owendlamb and you: I have no interest in debating this with you. However, I do have a suggestion, which Gary Luckenbaugh (not an HN'er, I don't think) took from me, and is delighted he did: Start a Substack channel. It can be free (like mine). Gary has one on the BASIC language, and he's thrilled when hundreds of people all over the world read his posts. On HN you don't know how many even saw your post, but on Substack you will. You'll probably find that there are already a lot of religious channels, but who knows -- maybe yours will stand out!
  - nickpsecurity 3y ago
    I appreciate the tip. I might do that sometime as a YouTube alternative. I don’t really try to promote myself or anything, though. In the Great Commission, Jesus commanded believers to take His message to the world so they won’t perish. He and the Apostles always went wherever people were already gathering or to those unreached. Likewise, I go to places with people from many walks of life to meet them, learn from them, bless them, and share Christ, too. HN is quite a blessing because I get to see most of that happen here. Except for Christ and His Word which I talk about when the occasion arises. I really do enjoy meeting all of you. :)

lo_zamoyski 3y ago

> So, one place has us separated from everyone, in a lake of fire, and burning non-stop. Satan will be there, too. This is a curious statement, as the subject is Dante, and the "Inferno" shows us not a huge lake of fire with all the damned burning within it, but rather a diverse Hell in which one's torment reflects one's vices. This has a theological resonance, as the very nature of Hell is first and foremost the fulfillment of one's corrupt and sinful desires, it is God letting you have exactly what you want, your dark little heart's desire (the logical outcome of having been created a free being; Matthew 6:21[0] captures this quite nicely). When you die, your orientation becomes fixed forever, and if it isn't on the Summum Bonum, the Highest Good, the only thing capable of satisfying Man's heart, then it will be some lesser real or apparent good. This is the consummation of utter hopelessness and despair. And what is at the very center of Hell in the "Inferno" if not a lake of fire? An absolutely frigid place, a frozen lake, with Satan lodged permanently in the ice up to his waist, with every flap of his wings making the place even colder. Fire is actually a better metaphor for God (even when we speak of the fire of God's just wrath, a kind of friction resulting from our evil will colliding with the Will of God). If God is the Logos, and Logos is like fire, and God so often is represented by fire, by its dynamism, then the opposite is the lifelessness of sin, a world of ice and death, a cold void. [0] https://biblia.com/bible/esv/matthew/6/21 https://biblia.com/bible/esv/matthew/6/21

JdeBP 3y ago
There is of course the old rec.humour.funny posting, that was far earlier a humorous journal article from the 1970s, that demonstrates with Biblical references and basic chemistry and physics that Heaven is a lot hotter than Hell.
nickpsecurity 3y ago
Re the subject. On HN, we often discuss the article, other content related to the article, and peripheral points. Many often prefer the original source over adaptations, too. In this case, I referenced “God’s Word” to make peripheral points about the original source material instead of Dante’s own work. So, you’re certainly right. I went to a factual source with evidence I linked elsewhere instead of the fictional work. That source said you and I would be in Hell if we didn’t take steps to avoid it. A critical topic that gets no attention here. So, I’m covering it. We can know it will be fire, not ice, since the God who created Hell talked about it so much during His time here: https://www.crossway.org/articles/jesus-said-more-about-hell-than-anyone-in-the-bible/ https://www.crossway.org/articles/jesus-said-more-about-hell... It’s not some consequence of our thoughts or feelings or symbolism. It’s an actual place… an objective punishment…. justice and wrath… our sovereign ruler pours out on His enemies. It has a number of descriptions that make us wonder how literal or symbolic they are. While none are ice, many talk about flame, lake of fire, and smoke in quite a literal way. Far as Satan, God’s Word says he goes into the lake of fire at the appointed time for his defeat. Revelation 20 captures much of the judgement of Satan and people without Christ’s forgiveness: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev.+20&version=ESV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev.+20&version... One other thing. God’s wrath is described as a consuming fire. The book of Nahum is all about how horrifying it is. Ice, or deadly cold, makes your body slow down until you nod off dead. Fire wakes you up to fully alert as you scream running away from it. If your nerves and organs were indestructible, then you’d be stuck with that maximum moment of pain every second of your life. Hell might be eternal fire because it’s more horrifying that way.