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Entertainment is one industry that will survive post-AI. We're still going to want to watch humans play sports, music and video games. We're going to want to w

Entertainment is one industry that will survive post-AI. We're still going to want to watch humans play sports, music and video games. We're going to want to watch humans act, cook food, and make vlogs. The chess industry is growing rapidly, even though it has already been conquered by AI: https://www.einpresswire.com/article/649379223/chess-market-to-experience-strong-growth-during-the-forecast-period-2023-2030 https://www.einpresswire.com/article/649379223/chess-market-...

ultra_nick 3y ago
There are content farms in Facebook churning out fake grandkids for old folks to fawn over.
suyash 3y ago
That's the next one on the chopping block, wait till Sora and related services comes out, it's all going to be digitally generated and will look just as real so yes it will be content about humans but without human doing/creating much of it.
- tylerchilds 3y ago
  as both an engineer and an entertainer, perception is reality. on the one hand, a computer system could 1:1 recreate a stunt a human did and elevate it to a stunt a human couldn’t do. people witness entertainment to trick their minds, and the disbelief and astonishment in the human condition hinges on “there’s no way _i_ could do that” and once they know they literally could not have done it, they’re not impressed. they may pay to be fooled once, but never twice. there’s a market for what you’re talking about, but that space is b2b and not c2c, which is where entertainment money flows. tl;dr dollar for dollar, ai vs taylor swift, taylor swift wins every time, no contest.
  - hackable_sand 3y ago
    > they’re not impressed This is subjective. Impressive things impress. It can be the hand-drawn impossible stunts from the 30's, or a CGI stunt from 2019.
    - tylerchilds 3y ago
      totally agree, but what i’m getting at is the creative core of an expression. there’s an aspect of a piece that impresses and i’m claiming that exists as something the viewer appreciates and imitates in their mind’s eye. as a programmer, i create many things that impress people, but when i show them the methods of that creation, i can palpably feel their excitement wane as they lose interest in the nuance of my execution. beyond the surface, there’s an aspect of being impressed that is also the desire to take part in the recreation of it all. my claim in the first person, “i’m visually impressed by many image generators, but i’m not interested in fiddling with knobs, buttons, and strings to recreate the image in my mind’s eye”
      - hackable_sand 3y ago
        I just think that art economy should not be beholden to critical consensus. Art is a continuum of multimedia. At some abstraction you will be able to submit your piece into the collective and draw on increasingly precise inspo.
        tylerchilds 3y ago
        as an artist, i had a piece of software. in this piece of software i was able to pause and rewind time, snap to keyframes and investigate every layer, every line, every point. macromedia flash was my childhood, the foundation of my career in technology, eventually bought by adobe and shut down. i’m really not seeing that level of fidelity in these ai systems. i agree art shouldn’t be beholden to any form of consensus, but i’m more wary of any art supply that’s leased, not owned.
        hackable_sand 3y ago
        Fair enough! I appreciate your perspective on this. My art experience was programmatic art on Godot - by implementing algorithms on Wikipedia, painting in Krita with a tablet, and some modeling in Blender; FOSS save us. Perhaps democratized or collective compute is next. Maybe AI as art itself is the new frontier. Who truly knows?
chasd00 3y ago
humans will always have contests to see which human or group of humans is the best at something and it will always be entertaining to watch the contests. op is right.
bongodongobob 3y ago
As a lifelong musician, AI music has reached a level where it's able to write absolute bangers AND soulful music with feeling. Last weekend I listened to AI music all weekend long in absolute shock. People will still want to go to concerts, but a lot of that music will either be written by, or inspired by AI. This is one that I generated that has me convinced anyway. I made about 100 versions in different styles, but this makes my hair stand up. https://app.suno.ai/song/77d97c83-8633-47d2-80b2-fe47952a6bca https://app.suno.ai/song/77d97c83-8633-47d2-80b2-fe47952a6bc... And a stoner rock banger: https://app.suno.ai/song/2071317f-a5ba-4f1f-b77b-048d6ff03a99 https://app.suno.ai/song/2071317f-a5ba-4f1f-b77b-048d6ff03a9... I mean, even if you don't think it's perfect, you re-record those and no one's going to know it's AI.
- tyg13 3y ago
  Am I stupid, or is this just AI covering Blackbird by The Beatles in a couple different styles? Is this supposed to be an example of AI writing "absolute bangers" or "soulful music with feeling" because I just don't see it. It seems like the exact "paint-by-numbers" stuff that we always see with AI: it's capable of taking existing art and mashing it together, but there's nothing interesting or novel being created here. It's the pinnacle of carbon-copy, technically impressive but still soulless art. If you played me either of these songs without telling me they were AI, I would think: OK, weird cover of Blackbird? Not particularly moving, but perhaps a stepping off point to something more. What would interest me more than the music itself is the story behind why the song was covered, who was performing it, what were their intended emotions in creating it? And of course, since it's a cover, if they had any original material of their own. Knowing that it's just an audio file being synthesized by an AI takes all of the enjoyment out of it for me (not that it was particularly good to begin with). Music is not simply good because of the sound entering your ears. The story, the artist behind it, the intended emotion and artistry is part of the experience. AI does not deliver on this, and I doubt it ever will, because human connection is what underlies those extra-musical qualities. I care about the people who made the music; I will never care about the machine.
  - bongodongobob 3y ago
    Those are two examples I thought I'd give rather than linkbombing. Yes, I chose the lyrics to Blackbird because they are short, it generates in 2:00 chunks, and they don't have obvious meter. It's not like a limerick or something. I wanted to test the musical capabilities, I wasn't interested in generating lyrics, though that can obviously be done. As someone who has studied and played music professionally my whole life, this isn't paint by number, at least in the way you think it is. Most music is very similar. You can write 90% of most popular music using the 6 diatonic trichords, and 80% probably with only 4. There are also only so many ways to rearrange those. This is not using a book of chord changes or melodies. I can promise you that after listening to 100s of versions of Blackbird, Yesterday, and the ABCs, I do not see the sort of pull the changes from a database that you're implying. In fact, I'd wager I could probably find a dozen songs that use the exact same chord changes and you wouldn't even have realized prior. I know because it's a great wedding gig trick, and we'd do it all the time. I don't know what changes you think were carbon copied in the first link. It shows really good songwriting skills. Use of tension and surprise. "It sounds like everything else in that genre." Yes, that's what a genre is. It also shows skill at vocal phrasing. This is really difficult and makes or breaks any song you try to write. Explaining how difficult it is to write good melodies while putting a hard syllabic constraint on it is beyond the scope here. It's not easy or obvious and usually sounds like shit. Like, try to sing Sweet Home Alabama along with the chord changes at the end of "Layla". After doing essentially that for years (that's exactly what songwriting is) I doubt I could do it and not have it sound idiotic. This thing can do that. Here's an example of it mimicking Russian to English phrasing: https://app.suno.ai/song/0d2d817f-4bf3-4837-85ab-9ff13abe9b49 https://app.suno.ai/song/0d2d817f-4bf3-4837-85ab-9ff13abe9b4... David Bowi-ish phrasing: https://app.suno.ai/song/a6b9e419-2e0f-4208-b66e-929b2076d960 https://app.suno.ai/song/a6b9e419-2e0f-4208-b66e-929b2076d96... West Coast Hip-Hop banger alert if you're over 35 https://app.suno.ai/song/82e05d5b-7e0f-4715-8ed4-5f3d22fb81d9 https://app.suno.ai/song/82e05d5b-7e0f-4715-8ed4-5f3d22fb81d... Acid Funk https://app.suno.ai/song/de174b94-1758-4fae-b497-93b79f384a2b https://app.suno.ai/song/de174b94-1758-4fae-b497-93b79f384a2... Like I said, I have about 100 of these. This shit is nuts. Here's some ABC's Bossa Nova https://app.suno.ai/song/0fe61c85-62be-4327-9f05-5b0865353a61 https://app.suno.ai/song/0fe61c85-62be-4327-9f05-5b0865353a6... 90's Grunge https://app.suno.ai/song/321a48e1-611b-4ec6-af0e-6e88815621c3 https://app.suno.ai/song/321a48e1-611b-4ec6-af0e-6e88815621c... Baroque https://app.suno.ai/song/68257dae-031f-4910-a013-9bc0281cee2a https://app.suno.ai/song/68257dae-031f-4910-a013-9bc0281cee2... If you're thinking "Oh that just sounds like the Brandenburg Concertos" YEAH. THAT'S MY POINT. This level of mimicry is brand new. I've never seen anything close to doing anything like this. If you have, I'm all ears. Now since you think originality is important, here is a poem I wrote for a girl I dated that worked at a coffee shop. Never intended it to be a song, but I love it. https://app.suno.ai/song/9346c871-5e7f-439a-9134-d876aca70862 https://app.suno.ai/song/9346c871-5e7f-439a-9134-d876aca7086... https://app.suno.ai/song/2be696db-3b3b-48df-9075-66d3388cc119 https://app.suno.ai/song/2be696db-3b3b-48df-9075-66d3388cc11... When I showed all this stuff to my musician friends this weekend (some who contract with Disney, Netflix, write scores, actively touring, etc), the reactions were actual tears, complete disbelief, shock, and existential dread. $1000 says there's no way you could tell me whether this is a Chopin original or not played amongst others, and that's my point. And if you say "While sure, but that's not really that impressive because computers", frankly, you don't know what you're talking about and have already made your mind up. https://app.suno.ai/song/bab48740-b977-4ee3-bdb8-0bc859950472 https://app.suno.ai/song/bab48740-b977-4ee3-bdb8-0bc85995047...
Ekaros 3y ago
I am not sure why would I care about cooking for one. If AI can recreate a video with same recipe, but I could set constraints on ingredients, time, techniques and such it likely would be preferable option for many myself included. Human acting? Eeh, good enough AI and video could do it for me. Same goes for vlogs. Content tailored for me would trump any existing vlogger.
mike_hearn 3y ago
Really? I'd think it's the opposite, I'm expecting non-sports entertainment to be largely AI dominated within 20 years. High budget movies already often have fully CGI characters in which the only human element is the voice, and now AI voice warping is nearly perfect it's an obvious move to eliminate the continuity risks by making voice actors fully interchangeable, or even fully synthetic. And then even in non-Pixar style movies, many scenes use CGI body doubles for stunts, fully CGI scenes and so on. The human actors often don't appear in all their own scenes, or they're even brought back from death to keep working. So that leaves things like music, sports, etc. Some music genres totally defocus the humans, like electronic music. They go via frequently changed pseudonyms and you never really see them perform in person. Sports I can see remaining fully human.

ultra_nick 3y ago

There are content farms in Facebook churning out fake grandkids for old folks to fawn over.

suyash 3y ago

That's the next one on the chopping block, wait till Sora and related services comes out, it's all going to be digitally generated and will look just as real so yes it will be content about humans but without human doing/creating much of it.

tylerchilds 3y ago
as both an engineer and an entertainer, perception is reality. on the one hand, a computer system could 1:1 recreate a stunt a human did and elevate it to a stunt a human couldn’t do. people witness entertainment to trick their minds, and the disbelief and astonishment in the human condition hinges on “there’s no way _i_ could do that” and once they know they literally could not have done it, they’re not impressed. they may pay to be fooled once, but never twice. there’s a market for what you’re talking about, but that space is b2b and not c2c, which is where entertainment money flows. tl;dr dollar for dollar, ai vs taylor swift, taylor swift wins every time, no contest.
- hackable_sand 3y ago
  > they’re not impressed This is subjective. Impressive things impress. It can be the hand-drawn impossible stunts from the 30's, or a CGI stunt from 2019.
  - tylerchilds 3y ago
    totally agree, but what i’m getting at is the creative core of an expression. there’s an aspect of a piece that impresses and i’m claiming that exists as something the viewer appreciates and imitates in their mind’s eye. as a programmer, i create many things that impress people, but when i show them the methods of that creation, i can palpably feel their excitement wane as they lose interest in the nuance of my execution. beyond the surface, there’s an aspect of being impressed that is also the desire to take part in the recreation of it all. my claim in the first person, “i’m visually impressed by many image generators, but i’m not interested in fiddling with knobs, buttons, and strings to recreate the image in my mind’s eye”
    - hackable_sand 3y ago
      I just think that art economy should not be beholden to critical consensus. Art is a continuum of multimedia. At some abstraction you will be able to submit your piece into the collective and draw on increasingly precise inspo.
      - tylerchilds 3y ago
        as an artist, i had a piece of software. in this piece of software i was able to pause and rewind time, snap to keyframes and investigate every layer, every line, every point. macromedia flash was my childhood, the foundation of my career in technology, eventually bought by adobe and shut down. i’m really not seeing that level of fidelity in these ai systems. i agree art shouldn’t be beholden to any form of consensus, but i’m more wary of any art supply that’s leased, not owned.
        hackable_sand 3y ago
        Fair enough! I appreciate your perspective on this. My art experience was programmatic art on Godot - by implementing algorithms on Wikipedia, painting in Krita with a tablet, and some modeling in Blender; FOSS save us. Perhaps democratized or collective compute is next. Maybe AI as art itself is the new frontier. Who truly knows?

chasd00 3y ago

humans will always have contests to see which human or group of humans is the best at something and it will always be entertaining to watch the contests. op is right.

bongodongobob 3y ago

As a lifelong musician, AI music has reached a level where it's able to write absolute bangers AND soulful music with feeling. Last weekend I listened to AI music all weekend long in absolute shock. People will still want to go to concerts, but a lot of that music will either be written by, or inspired by AI. This is one that I generated that has me convinced anyway. I made about 100 versions in different styles, but this makes my hair stand up. https://app.suno.ai/song/77d97c83-8633-47d2-80b2-fe47952a6bca https://app.suno.ai/song/77d97c83-8633-47d2-80b2-fe47952a6bc... And a stoner rock banger: https://app.suno.ai/song/2071317f-a5ba-4f1f-b77b-048d6ff03a99 https://app.suno.ai/song/2071317f-a5ba-4f1f-b77b-048d6ff03a9... I mean, even if you don't think it's perfect, you re-record those and no one's going to know it's AI.

tyg13 3y ago
Am I stupid, or is this just AI covering Blackbird by The Beatles in a couple different styles? Is this supposed to be an example of AI writing "absolute bangers" or "soulful music with feeling" because I just don't see it. It seems like the exact "paint-by-numbers" stuff that we always see with AI: it's capable of taking existing art and mashing it together, but there's nothing interesting or novel being created here. It's the pinnacle of carbon-copy, technically impressive but still soulless art. If you played me either of these songs without telling me they were AI, I would think: OK, weird cover of Blackbird? Not particularly moving, but perhaps a stepping off point to something more. What would interest me more than the music itself is the story behind why the song was covered, who was performing it, what were their intended emotions in creating it? And of course, since it's a cover, if they had any original material of their own. Knowing that it's just an audio file being synthesized by an AI takes all of the enjoyment out of it for me (not that it was particularly good to begin with). Music is not simply good because of the sound entering your ears. The story, the artist behind it, the intended emotion and artistry is part of the experience. AI does not deliver on this, and I doubt it ever will, because human connection is what underlies those extra-musical qualities. I care about the people who made the music; I will never care about the machine.
- bongodongobob 3y ago
  Those are two examples I thought I'd give rather than linkbombing. Yes, I chose the lyrics to Blackbird because they are short, it generates in 2:00 chunks, and they don't have obvious meter. It's not like a limerick or something. I wanted to test the musical capabilities, I wasn't interested in generating lyrics, though that can obviously be done. As someone who has studied and played music professionally my whole life, this isn't paint by number, at least in the way you think it is. Most music is very similar. You can write 90% of most popular music using the 6 diatonic trichords, and 80% probably with only 4. There are also only so many ways to rearrange those. This is not using a book of chord changes or melodies. I can promise you that after listening to 100s of versions of Blackbird, Yesterday, and the ABCs, I do not see the sort of pull the changes from a database that you're implying. In fact, I'd wager I could probably find a dozen songs that use the exact same chord changes and you wouldn't even have realized prior. I know because it's a great wedding gig trick, and we'd do it all the time. I don't know what changes you think were carbon copied in the first link. It shows really good songwriting skills. Use of tension and surprise. "It sounds like everything else in that genre." Yes, that's what a genre is. It also shows skill at vocal phrasing. This is really difficult and makes or breaks any song you try to write. Explaining how difficult it is to write good melodies while putting a hard syllabic constraint on it is beyond the scope here. It's not easy or obvious and usually sounds like shit. Like, try to sing Sweet Home Alabama along with the chord changes at the end of "Layla". After doing essentially that for years (that's exactly what songwriting is) I doubt I could do it and not have it sound idiotic. This thing can do that. Here's an example of it mimicking Russian to English phrasing: https://app.suno.ai/song/0d2d817f-4bf3-4837-85ab-9ff13abe9b49 https://app.suno.ai/song/0d2d817f-4bf3-4837-85ab-9ff13abe9b4... David Bowi-ish phrasing: https://app.suno.ai/song/a6b9e419-2e0f-4208-b66e-929b2076d960 https://app.suno.ai/song/a6b9e419-2e0f-4208-b66e-929b2076d96... West Coast Hip-Hop banger alert if you're over 35 https://app.suno.ai/song/82e05d5b-7e0f-4715-8ed4-5f3d22fb81d9 https://app.suno.ai/song/82e05d5b-7e0f-4715-8ed4-5f3d22fb81d... Acid Funk https://app.suno.ai/song/de174b94-1758-4fae-b497-93b79f384a2b https://app.suno.ai/song/de174b94-1758-4fae-b497-93b79f384a2... Like I said, I have about 100 of these. This shit is nuts. Here's some ABC's Bossa Nova https://app.suno.ai/song/0fe61c85-62be-4327-9f05-5b0865353a61 https://app.suno.ai/song/0fe61c85-62be-4327-9f05-5b0865353a6... 90's Grunge https://app.suno.ai/song/321a48e1-611b-4ec6-af0e-6e88815621c3 https://app.suno.ai/song/321a48e1-611b-4ec6-af0e-6e88815621c... Baroque https://app.suno.ai/song/68257dae-031f-4910-a013-9bc0281cee2a https://app.suno.ai/song/68257dae-031f-4910-a013-9bc0281cee2... If you're thinking "Oh that just sounds like the Brandenburg Concertos" YEAH. THAT'S MY POINT. This level of mimicry is brand new. I've never seen anything close to doing anything like this. If you have, I'm all ears. Now since you think originality is important, here is a poem I wrote for a girl I dated that worked at a coffee shop. Never intended it to be a song, but I love it. https://app.suno.ai/song/9346c871-5e7f-439a-9134-d876aca70862 https://app.suno.ai/song/9346c871-5e7f-439a-9134-d876aca7086... https://app.suno.ai/song/2be696db-3b3b-48df-9075-66d3388cc119 https://app.suno.ai/song/2be696db-3b3b-48df-9075-66d3388cc11... When I showed all this stuff to my musician friends this weekend (some who contract with Disney, Netflix, write scores, actively touring, etc), the reactions were actual tears, complete disbelief, shock, and existential dread. $1000 says there's no way you could tell me whether this is a Chopin original or not played amongst others, and that's my point. And if you say "While sure, but that's not really that impressive because computers", frankly, you don't know what you're talking about and have already made your mind up. https://app.suno.ai/song/bab48740-b977-4ee3-bdb8-0bc859950472 https://app.suno.ai/song/bab48740-b977-4ee3-bdb8-0bc85995047...

Ekaros 3y ago

I am not sure why would I care about cooking for one. If AI can recreate a video with same recipe, but I could set constraints on ingredients, time, techniques and such it likely would be preferable option for many myself included. Human acting? Eeh, good enough AI and video could do it for me. Same goes for vlogs. Content tailored for me would trump any existing vlogger.

mike_hearn 3y ago

Really? I'd think it's the opposite, I'm expecting non-sports entertainment to be largely AI dominated within 20 years. High budget movies already often have fully CGI characters in which the only human element is the voice, and now AI voice warping is nearly perfect it's an obvious move to eliminate the continuity risks by making voice actors fully interchangeable, or even fully synthetic. And then even in non-Pixar style movies, many scenes use CGI body doubles for stunts, fully CGI scenes and so on. The human actors often don't appear in all their own scenes, or they're even brought back from death to keep working. So that leaves things like music, sports, etc. Some music genres totally defocus the humans, like electronic music. They go via frequently changed pseudonyms and you never really see them perform in person. Sports I can see remaining fully human.