3 ms·

Real physical acoustic pianos have a latency of about 30ms (the hammer has to be released and strike the string). Musicians learn to lead the beat to account f

Real physical acoustic pianos have a latency of about 30ms (the hammer has to be released and strike the string). Musicians learn to lead the beat to account for the activation delay of their instrument - drummers start the downstroke before they want the drum to sound; guitarists fret the note before they strike a string… I don’t think keyboard latency would make rhythm games unplayable provided it’s consistent and the feedback is tangible enough for you to feel the delay in the interaction.

QuercusMax 3y ago
My wife has JUST started learning drums in the past week or so. She doesn't even have her own sticks or a kit yet, but we have access to a shared one from time to time. It's been interesting watching her learn to time the stick / pedal hits so they sound at the same time. I'm a semi-professional keyboard player, and in the past I played with some setups that had a fair bit of latency - and you definitely learn to just play things ahead of when you expect to hear them, especially on a big stage (where there's significant audio lag just from the speed of sound). And some keyboard patches have a very long attack, so you might need to play an extra half beat early to hit the right beat along with the rest of the band. If you watch an orchestra conductor, you may notice the arm movements don't match up with the sounds of the orchestra - the conductor literally leads the orchestra, directing parts before you hear them in the audience.
- freedomben 3y ago
  that's awesome! what kind of music does she like to play?
  - QuercusMax 3y ago
    My wife is a very good singer, and took singing lessons for years while singing in chorale and other group activities. She used to sing harmony in our church worship bad where I played keys weekly. She's been learning Irish tin whistle for a few years, and is a big fan of the Dropkick Murphys and other celtic punk bands, along with 90s alternative bands lik Foo Fighters, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Weezer. I've been learning guitar / bass / ukulele / mandolin, and it would be great fun if she can play drums and sing while I play something else....
- ska 3y ago
  Absolutely, humans are incredibly good at dealing with consistent and predictable latency in a fairly broad range. Dynamic latency, on the other hand ... not so good. I recall a guitarist friend who figured out their playing was going to hell trying to play to a track when their partner used the microwave. They were using an early (and probably cheap) wireless/cordless system and must have had interference.
mrob 3y ago
Pipe organs can have hundreds of milliseconds of latency, and it's different with every organ. Organists learn to compensate for it.
SnowflakeOnIce 3y ago
30ms seems high! Though I might believe that. On higher-end pianos (mostly grands), there is "double escapement" action, which allows much faster note repetition than without. I suspect the latency would be lower on such pianos. > Musicians learn to lead the beat to account for the activation delay of their instrument Yes, this is absolutely a thing! I play upright bass, and placement of bass tones with respect to drums can get very nuanced. Slightly ahead or on top of the beat? Slightly behind? Changing partway through the tune? It's interesting to note also how small discrepancies in latency can interfere: a couple tens of milliseconds of additional latency from the usual — perhaps by standing 10-15 feet farther away than accustomed, or from using peripherals that introduce delay — can change the pocket of a performance.

QuercusMax 3y ago

My wife has JUST started learning drums in the past week or so. She doesn't even have her own sticks or a kit yet, but we have access to a shared one from time to time. It's been interesting watching her learn to time the stick / pedal hits so they sound at the same time. I'm a semi-professional keyboard player, and in the past I played with some setups that had a fair bit of latency - and you definitely learn to just play things ahead of when you expect to hear them, especially on a big stage (where there's significant audio lag just from the speed of sound). And some keyboard patches have a very long attack, so you might need to play an extra half beat early to hit the right beat along with the rest of the band. If you watch an orchestra conductor, you may notice the arm movements don't match up with the sounds of the orchestra - the conductor literally leads the orchestra, directing parts before you hear them in the audience.

freedomben 3y ago
that's awesome! what kind of music does she like to play?
- QuercusMax 3y ago
  My wife is a very good singer, and took singing lessons for years while singing in chorale and other group activities. She used to sing harmony in our church worship bad where I played keys weekly. She's been learning Irish tin whistle for a few years, and is a big fan of the Dropkick Murphys and other celtic punk bands, along with 90s alternative bands lik Foo Fighters, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Weezer. I've been learning guitar / bass / ukulele / mandolin, and it would be great fun if she can play drums and sing while I play something else....
ska 3y ago
Absolutely, humans are incredibly good at dealing with consistent and predictable latency in a fairly broad range. Dynamic latency, on the other hand ... not so good. I recall a guitarist friend who figured out their playing was going to hell trying to play to a track when their partner used the microwave. They were using an early (and probably cheap) wireless/cordless system and must have had interference.

mrob 3y ago

Pipe organs can have hundreds of milliseconds of latency, and it's different with every organ. Organists learn to compensate for it.

SnowflakeOnIce 3y ago

30ms seems high! Though I might believe that. On higher-end pianos (mostly grands), there is "double escapement" action, which allows much faster note repetition than without. I suspect the latency would be lower on such pianos. > Musicians learn to lead the beat to account for the activation delay of their instrument Yes, this is absolutely a thing! I play upright bass, and placement of bass tones with respect to drums can get very nuanced. Slightly ahead or on top of the beat? Slightly behind? Changing partway through the tune? It's interesting to note also how small discrepancies in latency can interfere: a couple tens of milliseconds of additional latency from the usual — perhaps by standing 10-15 feet farther away than accustomed, or from using peripherals that introduce delay — can change the pocket of a performance.