4 ms·

I didn't know that. I have to say, this is a crazy system. Why not just have a single payer rather than saddle people with debts that they cannot (and will not)

by adamc 3y ago

I didn't know that. I have to say, this is a crazy system. Why not just have a single payer rather than saddle people with debts that they cannot (and will not) pay off? It's got to cause a lot of stress.

rjbwork 3y ago
Because then insurance companies wouldn't be able to skim ~20% off the top of the system. A lot of people who own stock in those insurance companies would be very upset.
School-Cotton 3y ago
> Why not just The US can't "just" do anything because the political system is completely deadlocked. It's not really like well-functioning democracies where a coalition can win an election with a particular set of proposals for reform and then get those implemented.
- adamc 3y ago
  Yeah, but this pre-dates that gridlock. Not disagreeing. Actually, the Republican party these days is capable of gridlocking itself. I've never seen such a high level of dysfunction -- enough so that I suspect we are living in some transition period, although what we are transitioning to I am uncertain. I don't think the current Republican party is stable.
  - paulmd 3y ago
    transition need only happen when there is some potential consequence of failure. The US is militarily inassailable, it's not going to fall in the same way that, eg, the polish sejm did with the liberum veto. sure, it can crumble economically etc but that's a lot slower process and gives plenty of time to materialize the spin.
notaustinpowers 3y ago
Because America is hyper-individualistic and distrusting of government. We don't trust the government to manage it appropriately and will instead use that money for vanity projects or to line the pockets of whoever is running that program. Then for the people, we consider "failures" such as debt, homelessness, etc as moral failures, rather than failures of the system. The leading thought is "Why are MY tax dollars paying for someone else's knee surgery? They should have planned properly!" Any change to this system will require a societal shift within America which isn't going to be happening anytime soon, if ever.
- TimedToasts 3y ago
  > "Why are MY tax dollars paying for someone else's knee surgery? They should have planned properly!" This is a very bad faith take on what groups opposed are saying and I don't even agree with them. You don't need to do this to effectively argue against this stance.
  - HumblyTossed 3y ago
    It's really not. Plenty of people feel this way.
  - silverquiet 3y ago
    > Even on death’s doorstep, Trevor was not angry. In fact, he staunchly supported the stance promoted by his elected officials. “Ain’t no way I would ever support Obamacare or sign up for it,” he told me. “I would rather die.” When I asked him why he felt this way even as he faced severe illness, he explained: “We don’t need any more government in our lives. And in any case, no way I want my tax dollars paying for Mexicans or welfare queens.” [0] [0]https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/jonathan-m-metzl-dying-whiteness/ https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/jonathan-m-metzl-dying...
    - ryandrake 3y ago
      It is super-sad, yet quintessentially USA: literally dying, for a political class who don't care about you, over principles rooted in selfishness. Can you get any more American than that?
HumblyTossed 3y ago
> Why not just have a single payer rather than saddle people with debts that they cannot (and will not) pay off? It's got to cause a lot of stress. Because a job "with benefits" is a badge of honor. Because the "gubment" is wasteful. Because people believe people will scam any system like that (although most people who think this assume it's "certain" people who do the scamming and can't be bothered to realize it's people like Rick Scott who do the scamming.).

by adamc 3y ago

rjbwork 3y ago

Because then insurance companies wouldn't be able to skim ~20% off the top of the system. A lot of people who own stock in those insurance companies would be very upset.

School-Cotton 3y ago

> Why not just The US can't "just" do anything because the political system is completely deadlocked. It's not really like well-functioning democracies where a coalition can win an election with a particular set of proposals for reform and then get those implemented.

adamc 3y ago
Yeah, but this pre-dates that gridlock. Not disagreeing. Actually, the Republican party these days is capable of gridlocking itself. I've never seen such a high level of dysfunction -- enough so that I suspect we are living in some transition period, although what we are transitioning to I am uncertain. I don't think the current Republican party is stable.
- paulmd 3y ago
  transition need only happen when there is some potential consequence of failure. The US is militarily inassailable, it's not going to fall in the same way that, eg, the polish sejm did with the liberum veto. sure, it can crumble economically etc but that's a lot slower process and gives plenty of time to materialize the spin.

notaustinpowers 3y ago

Because America is hyper-individualistic and distrusting of government. We don't trust the government to manage it appropriately and will instead use that money for vanity projects or to line the pockets of whoever is running that program. Then for the people, we consider "failures" such as debt, homelessness, etc as moral failures, rather than failures of the system. The leading thought is "Why are MY tax dollars paying for someone else's knee surgery? They should have planned properly!" Any change to this system will require a societal shift within America which isn't going to be happening anytime soon, if ever.

TimedToasts 3y ago
> "Why are MY tax dollars paying for someone else's knee surgery? They should have planned properly!" This is a very bad faith take on what groups opposed are saying and I don't even agree with them. You don't need to do this to effectively argue against this stance.
- HumblyTossed 3y ago
  It's really not. Plenty of people feel this way.
- silverquiet 3y ago
  > Even on death’s doorstep, Trevor was not angry. In fact, he staunchly supported the stance promoted by his elected officials. “Ain’t no way I would ever support Obamacare or sign up for it,” he told me. “I would rather die.” When I asked him why he felt this way even as he faced severe illness, he explained: “We don’t need any more government in our lives. And in any case, no way I want my tax dollars paying for Mexicans or welfare queens.” [0] [0]https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/jonathan-m-metzl-dying-whiteness/ https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/jonathan-m-metzl-dying...
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    It is super-sad, yet quintessentially USA: literally dying, for a political class who don't care about you, over principles rooted in selfishness. Can you get any more American than that?

HumblyTossed 3y ago

> Why not just have a single payer rather than saddle people with debts that they cannot (and will not) pay off? It's got to cause a lot of stress. Because a job "with benefits" is a badge of honor. Because the "gubment" is wasteful. Because people believe people will scam any system like that (although most people who think this assume it's "certain" people who do the scamming and can't be bothered to realize it's people like Rick Scott who do the scamming.).