5 ms·
I found the claim in the keyboard latency article suspicious. If keyboards regularly had 60ms key press to USB latency, rhythm games will be literally unplayabl
by nialv7 3y ago
I found the claim in the keyboard latency article suspicious. If keyboards regularly had 60ms key press to USB latency, rhythm games will be literally unplayable. Yet I never had this kind of problem with any of the keyboards I have owned.
- jasonjmcghee 3y agoI don't buy the 60ms latency either, but it's very easy to compensate for consistent latency when playing games, and most rhythm games choreograph what you should do in "just a moment" which is probably at least 10x more than 60ms
- hobs 3y agoSure, but not in FPS games, an additional 60ms you might as well as be down an entire standard deviation.
- bee_rider 3y agoOnly on movement inputs, which don’t (?) make as big a difference as aiming speed for most people I think. (I aim with my feet in first person shooters but I think that is a habit, maybe bad habit, picked up from playing on consoles for many years). Lots of people might not be good enough to care about missing 1-2 frames. One could also pre-load the wasd keys.
- codedokode 3y agoCould it be that the user simply learns to press a key slightly earlier to compensate for the latency? There is key travel time you have to account for anyway.
- pixote 3y agoRythm games almost always have a calibration setting, where they ask you to press a key on a regular beat. Then can also do it to check the visual latency by doing a second test with visuals only. This allows them to calculate the audio and video latency of your system to counter it when measuring your precision in the actual game.
- Perz1val 3y agoOooh, that explains why when watching some super high bpm runs I always got the impression that they were like a frame off the marked area - but it was just shifted ahead of the actual music and they were in actually in sync
- bobmcnamara 3y agoThe 60ms keyboard is wireless. Some of them will batch multiple key presses over a slower connection interval, maybe 60ms, then the radio to USB converter blasts them over together. So you can still type fast, but you absolutely cannot play rhythm games.
- _aavaa_ 3y agoRhythm games will often have compensation for the delays of the input, audio, and visuals. Some do this without telling the users, others do it explicitly, e.g. Crypt of the Necrodancer.
- prmoustache 3y agoRhythm is about frequency, not latency. As long as latency is stable, anyone adapts to it.
- SnowflakeOnIce 3y agoYes and no. Latency across a stage is one reason why orchestras have conductors. An orchestra split across a stage can have enough latency between one side and another to cause chaos sans conductor. It takes noticeable time for sound to cross the stage.
- jameshart 3y agoReal physical acoustic pianos have a latency of about 30ms (the hammer has to be released and strike the string). Musicians learn to lead the beat to account for the activation delay of their instrument - drummers start the downstroke before they want the drum to sound; guitarists fret the note before they strike a string… I don’t think keyboard latency would make rhythm games unplayable provided it’s consistent and the feedback is tangible enough for you to feel the delay in the interaction.
- QuercusMax 3y agoMy wife has JUST started learning drums in the past week or so. She doesn't even have her own sticks or a kit yet, but we have access to a shared one from time to time. It's been interesting watching her learn to time the stick / pedal hits so they sound at the same time. I'm a semi-professional keyboard player, and in the past I played with some setups that had a fair bit of latency - and you definitely learn to just play things ahead of when you expect to hear them, especially on a big stage (where there's significant audio lag just from the speed of sound). And some keyboard patches have a very long attack, so you might need to play an extra half beat early to hit the right beat along with the rest of the band. If you watch an orchestra conductor, you may notice the arm movements don't match up with the sounds of the orchestra - the conductor literally leads the orchestra, directing parts before you hear them in the audience.
- freedomben 3y agothat's awesome! what kind of music does she like to play?
- QuercusMax 3y agoMy wife is a very good singer, and took singing lessons for years while singing in chorale and other group activities. She used to sing harmony in our church worship bad where I played keys weekly. She's been learning Irish tin whistle for a few years, and is a big fan of the Dropkick Murphys and other celtic punk bands, along with 90s alternative bands lik Foo Fighters, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Weezer. I've been learning guitar / bass / ukulele / mandolin, and it would be great fun if she can play drums and sing while I play something else....
- NoahKAndrews 3y agoThe latency of the physical key going down is counted in that post, so it includes mechanical "latency" that will differ depending on how hard you press the keys and if you fully release the key.
- Narishma 3y agoRhythm games are probably the easiest to play with high latency, as long as it's consistent.
- GuB-42 3y agoFor rhythm games, you want to minimize jitter, latency doesn't matter much. Most games usually have some kind of compensation, so really the only thing that high latency does is delay in visual feedback, which usually doesn't matter that much as players are not focusing on the notes they just played. And even without compensation, it is possible to adjust as long as the latency is constant (it is not a good thing though). It matters more in fighting games, where reaction time is crucial because you don't know in advance what your opponent is doing. Fighting game players are usually picky about their controller electronics for that reason, the net code of online games also gets a lot of attention. In a rhythm game, you usually have 100s of ms to prepare you moves, even when the execution is much faster. It is a form of pipelining.