6 ms·

I think part of the lesson here is that so few manufactures bother to put any effort into design or quality at all that the ones who do get to name their price.

nimrody 14y ago
Or maybe the point is that nobody cares or bothers to check the labels (safety? We don't need this...). It all comes down to price and most customers (myself included in this case) do not know any better.
- speleding 14y ago
  The consumer does not have to know about UL labels or other safety markings. If the device doesn't have the required markings, the vendor is not allowed to sell them.
  - mbell 14y ago
    This is not true. The UL label is not a "requirement". In fact Underwriters Laboratory has no government affiliation what-so-ever, its a distinct entity. UL isn't the "requirement" normally, just an "acceptable safety certification", it has just come to pass that UL is the defacto safety certification in the US, UL has cornered the market. Safety certification of some sort is only "required" in some markets, some jurisdictions, etc. For instance a safety certification is required for devices in a public school, is usually required by the local fire inspector in commercial structures. etc. Getting a UL stamp on a consumer device is actually just a "cover your ass" move. If a device were to short out and kill someone or set a structure on fire, the existence of the UL certification allows the manufacturer to avoid legal responsibility for damages in most cases. The only generally applicable certifications that are actually legally required for sale to end users are the FCC part 15 electrical interference tests. Other than that, there are market requirements for schools / hospitals but those are not requirements for sale, but rather requirements for use in particular markets.
    - speleding 14y ago
      Your point does not contradict mine though. I did not say the UL label is a requirement.
      - mbell 14y ago
        I don't follow, your statement was: > The consumer does not have to know about UL labels or other safety markings. If the device doesn't have the required markings, the vendor is not allowed to sell them. My point was that this isn't true. You can sell devices without UL safety stamps, there is no government regulation that says you can't. If your using the device in a certain context your fire inspector may call foul but that is completely different from a consumer not being able to purchase something because the "vendor is not allowed to sell them".
notJim 14y ago
Are you referring to the engineering of the power supply specifically, or to Apple's reputation for focusing on industrial design and quality products? Because I don't think they're able to “name their price” because their power supply is better engineered, because only a tiny fraction of people will ever know that it's better engineered.
ticks 14y ago
The problem is, there's often too much of a focus on design. Apple's power supplies for their laptops are really expensive, yet they offer limited interchangeability for the cables, so if a plug fails (due to the design) then most people end up buying a new expensive power supply.
- staunch 14y ago
  Another example: an old Macbook with a dead battery is extremely prone to being accidentally powered off by knocking the magnetic connector.
  - zhwang 14y ago
    But while your Macbook's battery is not dead (which I would hopefully presume is for most of the time you're using it), the magnetic connector is quite useful to have. It's got both great form and function. At least, until you come to the unfortunate side effect you've mentioned.
    - staunch 14y ago
      Actually I'm referring to a Macbook whose battery is permanently dead (or removed). It's also a problem when the battery is fully drained. I don't find it useful at all really. It's very neat but I've never had problems with the power plugs of any other laptop.
      - ajasmin 14y ago
        I broke a few DC plugs by tripping on the cable. Or stretching it to reach a power outlet and picking up the laptop still plugged in. Or getting tangled in the cable on the couch and such. These things break when you're not carful with them. In fact I don't remember having a laptop charger break for any other reason. It's always the DC plug or cable.
      - tseabrooks 14y ago
        Every laptop I've ever owned that wasn't a macbook (4) had complete hardware failures related to the damned DC power jack in the side of the laptop. Without fail the damn things always shorted out and/or just stopped working.
jrockway 14y ago
The Samsung charger compares favorably to Apple's at about 1/3 the price. It seems any "name brand" company is going to at least comply with UL rules. The no-name brands are completely unsafe, and Apple's charger may provide better touchscreen performance (for $20 more). Apple's prongs are also more overengineered than Samsung's. (Wait, not overengineered... who doesn't superglue their iPhone charger to the wall?)
- jonmrodriguez 14y ago
  Anecdote: My 2008 charger had its "hot" prong break off. It was in a dorm, so I couldn't turn off the breaker to pull the prong out, so as far as I know that prong is still there ready to zap the shit out of some unsuspecting college freshman...
  - jrockway 14y ago
    Most people would open a service request to get that thing pulled out rather than leave 120V exposed for whomever happens to be near that outlet next. (I would have just pulled it out with insulated pliers, though.)
    - jonmrodriguez 14y ago
      Absolutely, I definitely should have filed a request. I just remembered about that now in the context of this story. :( Hopefully it was found during summer room inspections.
  - gcb 14y ago
    the problem i ever had with the short outlet plugs in the US is the cable falling on it's own. can't fathom it being stuck there in any circumstance.
    - riffic 14y ago
      fathom, unless you're seeing ghosts.

nimrody 14y ago

Or maybe the point is that nobody cares or bothers to check the labels (safety? We don't need this...). It all comes down to price and most customers (myself included in this case) do not know any better.

speleding 14y ago
The consumer does not have to know about UL labels or other safety markings. If the device doesn't have the required markings, the vendor is not allowed to sell them.
- mbell 14y ago
  This is not true. The UL label is not a "requirement". In fact Underwriters Laboratory has no government affiliation what-so-ever, its a distinct entity. UL isn't the "requirement" normally, just an "acceptable safety certification", it has just come to pass that UL is the defacto safety certification in the US, UL has cornered the market. Safety certification of some sort is only "required" in some markets, some jurisdictions, etc. For instance a safety certification is required for devices in a public school, is usually required by the local fire inspector in commercial structures. etc. Getting a UL stamp on a consumer device is actually just a "cover your ass" move. If a device were to short out and kill someone or set a structure on fire, the existence of the UL certification allows the manufacturer to avoid legal responsibility for damages in most cases. The only generally applicable certifications that are actually legally required for sale to end users are the FCC part 15 electrical interference tests. Other than that, there are market requirements for schools / hospitals but those are not requirements for sale, but rather requirements for use in particular markets.
  - speleding 14y ago
    Your point does not contradict mine though. I did not say the UL label is a requirement.
    - mbell 14y ago
      I don't follow, your statement was: > The consumer does not have to know about UL labels or other safety markings. If the device doesn't have the required markings, the vendor is not allowed to sell them. My point was that this isn't true. You can sell devices without UL safety stamps, there is no government regulation that says you can't. If your using the device in a certain context your fire inspector may call foul but that is completely different from a consumer not being able to purchase something because the "vendor is not allowed to sell them".

notJim 14y ago

Are you referring to the engineering of the power supply specifically, or to Apple's reputation for focusing on industrial design and quality products? Because I don't think they're able to “name their price” because their power supply is better engineered, because only a tiny fraction of people will ever know that it's better engineered.

ticks 14y ago

The problem is, there's often too much of a focus on design. Apple's power supplies for their laptops are really expensive, yet they offer limited interchangeability for the cables, so if a plug fails (due to the design) then most people end up buying a new expensive power supply.

staunch 14y ago
Another example: an old Macbook with a dead battery is extremely prone to being accidentally powered off by knocking the magnetic connector.
- zhwang 14y ago
  But while your Macbook's battery is not dead (which I would hopefully presume is for most of the time you're using it), the magnetic connector is quite useful to have. It's got both great form and function. At least, until you come to the unfortunate side effect you've mentioned.
  - staunch 14y ago
    Actually I'm referring to a Macbook whose battery is permanently dead (or removed). It's also a problem when the battery is fully drained. I don't find it useful at all really. It's very neat but I've never had problems with the power plugs of any other laptop.
    - ajasmin 14y ago
      I broke a few DC plugs by tripping on the cable. Or stretching it to reach a power outlet and picking up the laptop still plugged in. Or getting tangled in the cable on the couch and such. These things break when you're not carful with them. In fact I don't remember having a laptop charger break for any other reason. It's always the DC plug or cable.
    - tseabrooks 14y ago
      Every laptop I've ever owned that wasn't a macbook (4) had complete hardware failures related to the damned DC power jack in the side of the laptop. Without fail the damn things always shorted out and/or just stopped working.

jrockway 14y ago

The Samsung charger compares favorably to Apple's at about 1/3 the price. It seems any "name brand" company is going to at least comply with UL rules. The no-name brands are completely unsafe, and Apple's charger may provide better touchscreen performance (for $20 more). Apple's prongs are also more overengineered than Samsung's. (Wait, not overengineered... who doesn't superglue their iPhone charger to the wall?)

jonmrodriguez 14y ago
Anecdote: My 2008 charger had its "hot" prong break off. It was in a dorm, so I couldn't turn off the breaker to pull the prong out, so as far as I know that prong is still there ready to zap the shit out of some unsuspecting college freshman...
- jrockway 14y ago
  Most people would open a service request to get that thing pulled out rather than leave 120V exposed for whomever happens to be near that outlet next. (I would have just pulled it out with insulated pliers, though.)
  - jonmrodriguez 14y ago
    Absolutely, I definitely should have filed a request. I just remembered about that now in the context of this story. :( Hopefully it was found during summer room inspections.
- gcb 14y ago
  the problem i ever had with the short outlet plugs in the US is the cable falling on it's own. can't fathom it being stuck there in any circumstance.
  - riffic 14y ago
    fathom, unless you're seeing ghosts.