4 ms·

Folks, you can travel outside of Germany for sure, as long as you stay inside Schengen.

by nixass 3y ago

mkesper 3y ago
Please add a link for people relying on this info.
- stavros 3y ago
  A link to what? Travel within the Schengen area is unrestricted, you can drive or fly to wherever you want and nobody will check passports.
  - rkachowski 3y ago
    This isn't true, this year I have been on a train from Marseille to Berlin and German police checked everyone on the train for passports at the border specifically to check residence validity - and removed one passenger with a residence permit as he attempted to reenter Germany (he was informed he was not initially permitted to leave)
    - stavros 3y ago
      Those are random spot checks, there's no border between France and Germany where everyone's passport will be checked.
      - bondarchuk 3y ago
        "nobody will check passports" "Those are random spot checks" So there are random spot checks where people will check passports. So "nobody will check passports" is false.
        stavros 3y ago
        Fine, word lawyer, "nobody will check passports above the base rate of passport checking you may get anywhere, including any random trip".
        dagw 3y ago
        If you're going to risk your future permanent residency, it is very important to know exactly what that 'base rate' is. As someone who travels a fair bit within Schengen, I can tell you that the rate is quite high, much higher than it was a few years ago. And if you happen to look "un-European", the rate is quite a bit higher.
        LtWorf 3y ago
        Not "passport", valid ID. Which can be required also when not crossing a border, so you should have one.
  - berdario 3y ago
    That's true, and if you're doing intra-Schengen travel to attend a relative's funeral, I'd consider risking it... But otherwise: keep in mind that the freedom of movement is reserved to EU citizens (and their families): if you had to get a residence permit (and thus you're a non-EU national), you don't have the same rights. Even without temporary (Covid, terrorism, etc.) internal checks, you can be stopped by police (national laws will differ) and be asked to show proof of id, and proof of your right to stay. The fact that you have a pending residence application in progress will usually give the right to stay in the country that you applied in, but that proof might be as flimsy as as a stamped slip of paper (not even a A4 paper with a letterhead) and/or an email in the local language. Don't expect German police to be able to read and accept your Italian piece of paper, or viceversa Italian police to read and accept your piece of paper in German. In fact, the same applies for non-EU family of EU citizens: the residence permits will be denied only in extreme cases (e.g. terrorism)... if you're just a non-EU citizen, there are even more situations in which that would apply. Imagine that the country that you applied in might refuse your residence permit: you'd then have to leave the country and Schengen (or file some kind of appeal), and that would make it even clearer that you wouldn't have right to stay in another Schengen country. So, you might not have right to stay (in another Schengen country), and even if you might have it, proving your right might not be easy. About the > Please add a link The original request could've made sense (you could have for example linked to directive 2004/38/EC , but that doesn't apply to people who aren't EU citizens or family of EU citizens)... but note that in this case we're trying to prove a negative (the laws will usually describe which rights you have, but not in which case you don't have such a right... you might find a guidance or case law document, but those are scarcer) Again: the whole situation is really unfortunate, because the laws are also written with the expectation that you won't have to wait long after applying for the necessary documents. And even when the laws are clear about the timelines, the bureaucracy will try to weasel themselves out of it, for example Article 10 of the aforementioned directive states: > The right of residence of family members of a Union citizen who are not nationals of a Member State shall be evidenced by the issuing of a document called "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" no later than six months from the date on which they submit the application. A certificate of application for the residence card shall be issued immediately Of course, when we had to deal with it, the bureaucracy just asserted that until you show up for the appointment (which you had to wait more than 3 months for, since you originally applied), you haven't actually "submitted your application", yet. As an EU citizen, realizing first-hand how slow, uncertain, and oppressive our immigration system is, really left a bad taste in my mouth... If you're not a citizen of the EU or an “Annex II” country, I wish you good luck when applying for a Schengen visa, but in case that you might get rejected: don't sweat it, and just consider other destinations, if you're planning a vacation... there are a bunch more places with friendlier visa policies (e.g. Turkiye, Cape Verde, Morocco, UAE, etc.)
egorfine 3y ago
Theoretically, yes. Practically, not anymore: there are block posts on main roads into Germany and they check passports.
- gambiting 3y ago
  Uhm, no - when did you try travelling last? I just crossed the border to Germany from Poland(both ways) and there is nothing there. And before that I drove over in January and there was a huge queue because of "checkpoints to combat illegal immigration" and that checkpoint was just a bunch of border guards standing there looking at cars passing by, they weren't checking passports or much of anything really, it's all just theatre. Also did you forget flying?
  - nicbou 3y ago
    I did get checked a few times while heading from the Balkans back to Germany. There are also random checks in buses and trains.
  - egorfine 3y ago
    About five days ago, Szczecin → Berlin, stopped, had my documents meticulously examined and asked some typical questions I haven't been asked for a decade ("What's your proof of residence", etc). I look like a typical WASP programmer in his forties, so no selection bias or something.
    - gambiting 3y ago
      I guess it's just random stops or some checkpoints are more stringent than others.
    - tietjens 3y ago
      What counts as proof of residence in this case? Asking so I could prepare.
      - egorfine 3y ago
slowmotiony 3y ago
"Folks, you can travel outside of Germany for sure, just avoid the police, the border authorities and don't get caught."

Folks, you can travel outside of Germany for sure, as long as you stay inside Schengen.

by nixass 3y ago

Folks, you can travel outside of Germany for sure, as long as you stay inside Schengen.

mkesper 3y ago

Please add a link for people relying on this info.

stavros 3y ago
A link to what? Travel within the Schengen area is unrestricted, you can drive or fly to wherever you want and nobody will check passports.
- rkachowski 3y ago
  This isn't true, this year I have been on a train from Marseille to Berlin and German police checked everyone on the train for passports at the border specifically to check residence validity - and removed one passenger with a residence permit as he attempted to reenter Germany (he was informed he was not initially permitted to leave)
  - stavros 3y ago
    Those are random spot checks, there's no border between France and Germany where everyone's passport will be checked.
    - bondarchuk 3y ago
      "nobody will check passports" "Those are random spot checks" So there are random spot checks where people will check passports. So "nobody will check passports" is false.
      - stavros 3y ago
        Fine, word lawyer, "nobody will check passports above the base rate of passport checking you may get anywhere, including any random trip".
        dagw 3y ago
        If you're going to risk your future permanent residency, it is very important to know exactly what that 'base rate' is. As someone who travels a fair bit within Schengen, I can tell you that the rate is quite high, much higher than it was a few years ago. And if you happen to look "un-European", the rate is quite a bit higher.
      - LtWorf 3y ago
        Not "passport", valid ID. Which can be required also when not crossing a border, so you should have one.
- berdario 3y ago
  That's true, and if you're doing intra-Schengen travel to attend a relative's funeral, I'd consider risking it... But otherwise: keep in mind that the freedom of movement is reserved to EU citizens (and their families): if you had to get a residence permit (and thus you're a non-EU national), you don't have the same rights. Even without temporary (Covid, terrorism, etc.) internal checks, you can be stopped by police (national laws will differ) and be asked to show proof of id, and proof of your right to stay. The fact that you have a pending residence application in progress will usually give the right to stay in the country that you applied in, but that proof might be as flimsy as as a stamped slip of paper (not even a A4 paper with a letterhead) and/or an email in the local language. Don't expect German police to be able to read and accept your Italian piece of paper, or viceversa Italian police to read and accept your piece of paper in German. In fact, the same applies for non-EU family of EU citizens: the residence permits will be denied only in extreme cases (e.g. terrorism)... if you're just a non-EU citizen, there are even more situations in which that would apply. Imagine that the country that you applied in might refuse your residence permit: you'd then have to leave the country and Schengen (or file some kind of appeal), and that would make it even clearer that you wouldn't have right to stay in another Schengen country. So, you might not have right to stay (in another Schengen country), and even if you might have it, proving your right might not be easy. About the > Please add a link The original request could've made sense (you could have for example linked to directive 2004/38/EC , but that doesn't apply to people who aren't EU citizens or family of EU citizens)... but note that in this case we're trying to prove a negative (the laws will usually describe which rights you have, but not in which case you don't have such a right... you might find a guidance or case law document, but those are scarcer) Again: the whole situation is really unfortunate, because the laws are also written with the expectation that you won't have to wait long after applying for the necessary documents. And even when the laws are clear about the timelines, the bureaucracy will try to weasel themselves out of it, for example Article 10 of the aforementioned directive states: > The right of residence of family members of a Union citizen who are not nationals of a Member State shall be evidenced by the issuing of a document called "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" no later than six months from the date on which they submit the application. A certificate of application for the residence card shall be issued immediately Of course, when we had to deal with it, the bureaucracy just asserted that until you show up for the appointment (which you had to wait more than 3 months for, since you originally applied), you haven't actually "submitted your application", yet. As an EU citizen, realizing first-hand how slow, uncertain, and oppressive our immigration system is, really left a bad taste in my mouth... If you're not a citizen of the EU or an “Annex II” country, I wish you good luck when applying for a Schengen visa, but in case that you might get rejected: don't sweat it, and just consider other destinations, if you're planning a vacation... there are a bunch more places with friendlier visa policies (e.g. Turkiye, Cape Verde, Morocco, UAE, etc.)

egorfine 3y ago

Theoretically, yes. Practically, not anymore: there are block posts on main roads into Germany and they check passports.

gambiting 3y ago
Uhm, no - when did you try travelling last? I just crossed the border to Germany from Poland(both ways) and there is nothing there. And before that I drove over in January and there was a huge queue because of "checkpoints to combat illegal immigration" and that checkpoint was just a bunch of border guards standing there looking at cars passing by, they weren't checking passports or much of anything really, it's all just theatre. Also did you forget flying?
- nicbou 3y ago
  I did get checked a few times while heading from the Balkans back to Germany. There are also random checks in buses and trains.
- egorfine 3y ago
  About five days ago, Szczecin → Berlin, stopped, had my documents meticulously examined and asked some typical questions I haven't been asked for a decade ("What's your proof of residence", etc). I look like a typical WASP programmer in his forties, so no selection bias or something.
  - gambiting 3y ago
    I guess it's just random stops or some checkpoints are more stringent than others.
  - tietjens 3y ago
    What counts as proof of residence in this case? Asking so I could prepare.
    - egorfine 3y ago

slowmotiony 3y ago

"Folks, you can travel outside of Germany for sure, just avoid the police, the border authorities and don't get caught."