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Reviving an 800-Year-Old Japanese Tea Farm

165 points by kizunajp 2y ago

xrd 2y ago
It's a little embarrassing that they didn't survive and now need to be revived. I mean there are 21 businesses in Japan that are over a thousand years old! https://www.theceomagazine.com/business/management-leadership/japan-oldest-businesses/ https://www.theceomagazine.com/business/management-leadershi...
- UncleEntity 2y ago
  The one tea house in TFA has been in the family for 24 generations -- think of how many things that had to go right for that to happen.
arthurofbabylon 2y ago
I’m curious about this phenomenon for grapes as well – how many incredible varietals live in the spaces in between, undiscovered by humans?
- zdragnar 2y ago
  The best varietals of most plants are often the ones made by human intervention- selective breeding and such. Wild ones are often too sour, or too bitter, or don't produce much, or are impossible to experience because they don't travel well.
  - _a_a_a_ 2y ago
    Very much agreed. Even within my lifetime things have changed for the better ('better' = nicer for humans). When I was a kid aubergines had a strong bitterness that had to be soaked out of them with salt and water, and not with perfect success. Modern aubergines completely lack that bitterness. Wild strawberries sound great but they are tiny, ripen very unevenly and don't even taste that exciting. The breeding of grapes clearly continues, in a stall not far from me I can see grapes for sale that are literally the size of small plums. (edit: cultivated plums that is. Wild plums, you're welcome to them, small and sour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloe) Whilst food tends to be much smaller, bitter or sour, tougher to chew, lower in sugar and would not sell in a supermarket. https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/craproot https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/craproot
    - adrianN 2y ago
      Wild strawberries are absolutely wonderful compared to cultivars you can buy.
      - _a_a_a_ 2y ago
        Can you give your experiences please? When I lived in North Wales decades ago we had wild strawberries, they were about two or three times the volume of a chickpea in size (IIRC), and in two years I only ever found one that was ripe all the way around (they usually ripen on one side, or had a large patch of white unripeness even when the rest was red). I don't even remember that one tasting particularly stunning either.
        adrianN 2y ago
        In my experience wild strawberries have an almost explosive aroma that is similar to but different from cultivated strawberries. In contrast to cultivated strawberries the sweetness is very subdued.
        _a_a_a_ 2y ago
        Perhaps you lived somewhere much warmer weather could ripen properly. North Wales has much to offer[1] but a tropic clime is not one of them. [1] rain, rocks, sheep, rain, snow, rain, coal, slate, rain, sheep with rain, rocks and sheep with rain, rain.
        adrianN 2y ago
        Come visit Germany during strawberry season :)
      - Loughla 2y ago
        Where is that? Growing up in the nursery us, wild strawberries there were small. And if they had flavor, it was mostly sour.
      - 2y ago
rrix2 2y ago
If you're ever looking at tea shops that sell specialty Japanese teas you can find this style of tea, made from plants grown from seed pollinated by other nearby bushes as opposed to cuttings from a known cultivar, it's refered to as zairai or 在来. They are often interesting and much more "rough" teas with varying but generally mellow flavors and often processed to contain more hard materials like stems and veins as they would have been when it was still hand rolled. It definitely helps one imagine how tea must have been in those eras, though they still simmered the leaves with the water until the 1700s
rjzzleep 2y ago
When I went to Japan last time I asked about tea places and people would tell me "we don't drink tea outside, we drink it at home". I also remember an article a few years ago about dying Japanese tea tradition, somewhat related to the proliferation of instant tea dispersal machines and those 7-11 tea walls. What I would like to know is why contrary to Japan, there are Tea farms of all sizes everywhere. There are dozens of tea shops opening, and if you walk through Taipei you will see plenty of tea shops, tea places in every corner of the city. Why is that? Is it just the result of marketing and consumerism?
- paradiseluck 2y ago
  Could very well be because of the popularity of coffee in Japan, as it's seen trendier than the old fashioned tea, which alao tends to take extra care and time to brew. S. Koreans also tend to drink coffee way more than tea, but this might have to do with the extreme poverty coming out of korean war, and coffee being less expensive.
- resolutebat 2y ago
  Tea shops in Taiwan mostly sell bubble/boba tea, which is drenched in syrup and artificial flavors and the actual leaves themselves are an afterthought at best. The latest wave of higher-end places like Chicha San Chen are placing the focus back on good quality tea and proper brewing, but these are still a minority and it's still far, far away from the austere world of Japanese tea ceremony. https://chichasanchennorcal.com/ https://chichasanchennorcal.com/
  - rjzzleep 2y ago
    That is absolutely not true. It's hard to describe just how wrong your assessment of Taiwan's tea situation. The only way I can imagine you coming to that conclusion is that your experience with Taiwan tea is walking through the Ximen night market, but you just walk around random neighbourhoods in Taipei you'll find dozens of Tea shops. If you spend a little time driving through Taiwan's mountains you'll find plenty of Tea plantations, some of them with tea shops attached to them and others not.
- 2y ago
pvaldes 2y ago
I wonder if they are culturing (naturalized) "tea" or (native) "tea". The second would be interesting.
_as_text 2y ago
I kinda have this idea that while psychedelics like LSD are the easiest to catch a ride with, it is specifically tea that can get you furthest. When I was reading "Dream of the Red Chamber" some of the descriptions of tea drinking were really psychedelic, like being transported into a different realm of heavenly purity that permeates everything with effortless perfection, etc. Certainly I never experienced anything like this with any drug.
- tmountain 2y ago
  What’s in that tea? Something more than caffeine if people are taking trips with it.
  - doctorhandshake 2y ago
    Green tea also contains l-theanine, which interacts with caffeine uptake. Anecdotal but after having a pot of tea at a tea shop in Sheung Wan in Hong Kong I was high as a kite for a while afterwards in a way I’ve never experienced before or after, although I wouldn’t describe it as psychedelic - more stimulant.
    - Aromasin 2y ago
      Getting "Tea Drunk" is a common pursuit for many fine tea drinkers, myself included. My partner and I enjoy cultivars that give you a buzz. I went down a rabbit hole in trying different varieties and we found some that can only be drunk at the end of the day after work, else you'd write off the rest of the day. We had an aged white tea once that made us giggle like we were on shrooms, without all the overwhelming side effects or fear of a "bad trip". I started watching "Mei Leaf", who's a YouTuber with a deep knowledge of tea and gong fu style brewing specifically and was hooked. He's got a video on getting tea drunk specifically that made me hunt the feeling initially: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrLaKX9J8Uo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrLaKX9J8Uo
      - doctorhandshake 2y ago
        Wow did not realize this was a thing. Thanks for sharing this video. OT but the host is using some kind of phone app to pull autofocus … anyone know what that is?

165 points by kizunajp 2y ago

xrd 2y ago

It's a little embarrassing that they didn't survive and now need to be revived. I mean there are 21 businesses in Japan that are over a thousand years old! https://www.theceomagazine.com/business/management-leadership/japan-oldest-businesses/ https://www.theceomagazine.com/business/management-leadershi...

UncleEntity 2y ago
The one tea house in TFA has been in the family for 24 generations -- think of how many things that had to go right for that to happen.

arthurofbabylon 2y ago

I’m curious about this phenomenon for grapes as well – how many incredible varietals live in the spaces in between, undiscovered by humans?

zdragnar 2y ago
The best varietals of most plants are often the ones made by human intervention- selective breeding and such. Wild ones are often too sour, or too bitter, or don't produce much, or are impossible to experience because they don't travel well.
- _a_a_a_ 2y ago
  Very much agreed. Even within my lifetime things have changed for the better ('better' = nicer for humans). When I was a kid aubergines had a strong bitterness that had to be soaked out of them with salt and water, and not with perfect success. Modern aubergines completely lack that bitterness. Wild strawberries sound great but they are tiny, ripen very unevenly and don't even taste that exciting. The breeding of grapes clearly continues, in a stall not far from me I can see grapes for sale that are literally the size of small plums. (edit: cultivated plums that is. Wild plums, you're welcome to them, small and sour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloe) Whilst food tends to be much smaller, bitter or sour, tougher to chew, lower in sugar and would not sell in a supermarket. https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/craproot https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/craproot
  - adrianN 2y ago
    Wild strawberries are absolutely wonderful compared to cultivars you can buy.
    - _a_a_a_ 2y ago
      Can you give your experiences please? When I lived in North Wales decades ago we had wild strawberries, they were about two or three times the volume of a chickpea in size (IIRC), and in two years I only ever found one that was ripe all the way around (they usually ripen on one side, or had a large patch of white unripeness even when the rest was red). I don't even remember that one tasting particularly stunning either.
      - adrianN 2y ago
        In my experience wild strawberries have an almost explosive aroma that is similar to but different from cultivated strawberries. In contrast to cultivated strawberries the sweetness is very subdued.
        _a_a_a_ 2y ago
        Perhaps you lived somewhere much warmer weather could ripen properly. North Wales has much to offer[1] but a tropic clime is not one of them. [1] rain, rocks, sheep, rain, snow, rain, coal, slate, rain, sheep with rain, rocks and sheep with rain, rain.
        adrianN 2y ago
        Come visit Germany during strawberry season :)
    - Loughla 2y ago
      Where is that? Growing up in the nursery us, wild strawberries there were small. And if they had flavor, it was mostly sour.
    - 2y ago

rrix2 2y ago

If you're ever looking at tea shops that sell specialty Japanese teas you can find this style of tea, made from plants grown from seed pollinated by other nearby bushes as opposed to cuttings from a known cultivar, it's refered to as zairai or 在来. They are often interesting and much more "rough" teas with varying but generally mellow flavors and often processed to contain more hard materials like stems and veins as they would have been when it was still hand rolled. It definitely helps one imagine how tea must have been in those eras, though they still simmered the leaves with the water until the 1700s

rjzzleep 2y ago

When I went to Japan last time I asked about tea places and people would tell me "we don't drink tea outside, we drink it at home". I also remember an article a few years ago about dying Japanese tea tradition, somewhat related to the proliferation of instant tea dispersal machines and those 7-11 tea walls. What I would like to know is why contrary to Japan, there are Tea farms of all sizes everywhere. There are dozens of tea shops opening, and if you walk through Taipei you will see plenty of tea shops, tea places in every corner of the city. Why is that? Is it just the result of marketing and consumerism?

paradiseluck 2y ago
Could very well be because of the popularity of coffee in Japan, as it's seen trendier than the old fashioned tea, which alao tends to take extra care and time to brew. S. Koreans also tend to drink coffee way more than tea, but this might have to do with the extreme poverty coming out of korean war, and coffee being less expensive.
resolutebat 2y ago
Tea shops in Taiwan mostly sell bubble/boba tea, which is drenched in syrup and artificial flavors and the actual leaves themselves are an afterthought at best. The latest wave of higher-end places like Chicha San Chen are placing the focus back on good quality tea and proper brewing, but these are still a minority and it's still far, far away from the austere world of Japanese tea ceremony. https://chichasanchennorcal.com/ https://chichasanchennorcal.com/
- rjzzleep 2y ago
  That is absolutely not true. It's hard to describe just how wrong your assessment of Taiwan's tea situation. The only way I can imagine you coming to that conclusion is that your experience with Taiwan tea is walking through the Ximen night market, but you just walk around random neighbourhoods in Taipei you'll find dozens of Tea shops. If you spend a little time driving through Taiwan's mountains you'll find plenty of Tea plantations, some of them with tea shops attached to them and others not.
2y ago

pvaldes 2y ago

I wonder if they are culturing (naturalized) "tea" or (native) "tea". The second would be interesting.

_as_text 2y ago

I kinda have this idea that while psychedelics like LSD are the easiest to catch a ride with, it is specifically tea that can get you furthest. When I was reading "Dream of the Red Chamber" some of the descriptions of tea drinking were really psychedelic, like being transported into a different realm of heavenly purity that permeates everything with effortless perfection, etc. Certainly I never experienced anything like this with any drug.

tmountain 2y ago
What’s in that tea? Something more than caffeine if people are taking trips with it.
- doctorhandshake 2y ago
  Green tea also contains l-theanine, which interacts with caffeine uptake. Anecdotal but after having a pot of tea at a tea shop in Sheung Wan in Hong Kong I was high as a kite for a while afterwards in a way I’ve never experienced before or after, although I wouldn’t describe it as psychedelic - more stimulant.
  - Aromasin 2y ago
    Getting "Tea Drunk" is a common pursuit for many fine tea drinkers, myself included. My partner and I enjoy cultivars that give you a buzz. I went down a rabbit hole in trying different varieties and we found some that can only be drunk at the end of the day after work, else you'd write off the rest of the day. We had an aged white tea once that made us giggle like we were on shrooms, without all the overwhelming side effects or fear of a "bad trip". I started watching "Mei Leaf", who's a YouTuber with a deep knowledge of tea and gong fu style brewing specifically and was hooked. He's got a video on getting tea drunk specifically that made me hunt the feeling initially: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrLaKX9J8Uo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrLaKX9J8Uo
    - doctorhandshake 2y ago
      Wow did not realize this was a thing. Thanks for sharing this video. OT but the host is using some kind of phone app to pull autofocus … anyone know what that is?