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I remember investing in Palm thinking that they'd eventually be the ones to build something like the iphone. Sadly, they didn't and when apple did that was it f

by tensor 3y ago

I remember investing in Palm thinking that they'd eventually be the ones to build something like the iphone. Sadly, they didn't and when apple did that was it for them.

mrbluecoat 3y ago
Yeah, the GPL license cracked me up on this one. Can't imagine there's a danger of commercialization here..
- seszett 3y ago
  GPL isn't about commercialization though, it allows commercialization. It's all about preventing closed-source forks.
ianburrell 3y ago
One big problem is that Palm split into PalmSource for software and Palm One for hardware. PalmSource went off to design Linux-based OS, got acquired, and disappeared. Palm One, renamed back to Palm One, made some early smartphones with PalmOS. But PalmOS was pretty obsolete by then, with 16-bit apps running on 32-bit OS. Then Palm developed webOS, which made some weird hardware decisions and couldn't compete with iPhone and Android. But it could have been a contender, better than Blackberry and Nokia that didn't make jump to capacitive screens. I think Palm's problem was being too late, but if they hadn't split and made PalmOS successor, they would have missed capacitive smartphones.
- tensor 3y ago
  WebOS is great, at least it lives on in LG products for now. I far prefer it to android, despite the vastly smaller ecosystem.
- hedgehog 3y ago
  webOS was really nice, a lot of ideas that didn't come to iOS and Android until much later were present and nicely implemented back in 2010 or so.
  - ianburrell 3y ago
    I had a Palm Pre, and Treo before that. One problem is that webOS needed resources, and Palm chose limited hardware. I think webOS could have been the iPhone if Apple didn't exist. I think they could have taken the second spot from Android if had been earlier, open, and released conventional hardware.
lxgr 3y ago
They did have the Treo line! Arguably, what ultimately brought Palm down was their early success and the huge library of existing shareware and freeware tools: They desperately needed to try something new (Palm OS was just showing its age as a single-threaded, in-RAM, non-virtual-memory-based OS), but couldn't, since it would have alienated long-time fans by stranding their existing software libraries. They could never work their way through that chicken-and-egg problem (and all of the split ups (OS vs. hardware), forks/spin-offs (Handspring), and re-mergers didn't help either) until it was too late: Cobalt OS never saw any devices, and the Pre was an ambitious new start but would have had a tough time against the iPhone even if it would have launched earlier than that.
- floating-io 3y ago
  Wasn't that Handspring rather than palm? [edit: referring to Treo specifically, not the rest...]
  - pushedx 3y ago
    Right, it was ex-Palm employees at Handspring that created the Treo. Nice documentary about this with interviews: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9_Vh9h3Ohw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9_Vh9h3Ohw
  - classichasclass 3y ago
    Originally, but then Palm bought them.
- causality0 3y ago
  I'm going to blame it on Palm's flat refusal to move onto PalmOS 6. Every time a new device came out and it was still on PalmOS 5 the whole community was like "what the fuck are you doing?"
- fragmede 3y ago
  I think it was their lack of vertical integration that did it. there were too many pieces that every developer needed to do, that made it really hard to make apps for it. compare that to the app store where Apple just takes a 30% cut, which is steep, but they do things for that 30%. On the consumer end of things, the actually affordable data plan with att at launch, which is more vertical integration, rather than letting the carriers do their thing, is what did it, imo.
wazoox 3y ago
I had the whole Handspring / Palm smartphone line : Visor + Visor Phone, then Treo 270, then Treo 600, then the Treo 650, and finally the Palm Pré. They were no iPhone, but they were extremely efficient work tools.
bonyt 3y ago
I've heard blame partially put on carriers - they initially resisted even carrying the Treo line without putting limits on what Handspring could do with it. Apple had the iPod - and, crucially, customers - could bring these customers to the carriers, and so they could dictate more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9_Vh9h3Ohw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9_Vh9h3Ohw (the part I'm referencing is about 20 minutes in).

by tensor 3y ago

I remember investing in Palm thinking that they'd eventually be the ones to build something like the iphone. Sadly, they didn't and when apple did that was it for them.

mrbluecoat 3y ago

Yeah, the GPL license cracked me up on this one. Can't imagine there's a danger of commercialization here..

seszett 3y ago
GPL isn't about commercialization though, it allows commercialization. It's all about preventing closed-source forks.

ianburrell 3y ago

One big problem is that Palm split into PalmSource for software and Palm One for hardware. PalmSource went off to design Linux-based OS, got acquired, and disappeared. Palm One, renamed back to Palm One, made some early smartphones with PalmOS. But PalmOS was pretty obsolete by then, with 16-bit apps running on 32-bit OS. Then Palm developed webOS, which made some weird hardware decisions and couldn't compete with iPhone and Android. But it could have been a contender, better than Blackberry and Nokia that didn't make jump to capacitive screens. I think Palm's problem was being too late, but if they hadn't split and made PalmOS successor, they would have missed capacitive smartphones.

tensor 3y ago
WebOS is great, at least it lives on in LG products for now. I far prefer it to android, despite the vastly smaller ecosystem.
hedgehog 3y ago
webOS was really nice, a lot of ideas that didn't come to iOS and Android until much later were present and nicely implemented back in 2010 or so.
- ianburrell 3y ago
  I had a Palm Pre, and Treo before that. One problem is that webOS needed resources, and Palm chose limited hardware. I think webOS could have been the iPhone if Apple didn't exist. I think they could have taken the second spot from Android if had been earlier, open, and released conventional hardware.

lxgr 3y ago

They did have the Treo line! Arguably, what ultimately brought Palm down was their early success and the huge library of existing shareware and freeware tools: They desperately needed to try something new (Palm OS was just showing its age as a single-threaded, in-RAM, non-virtual-memory-based OS), but couldn't, since it would have alienated long-time fans by stranding their existing software libraries. They could never work their way through that chicken-and-egg problem (and all of the split ups (OS vs. hardware), forks/spin-offs (Handspring), and re-mergers didn't help either) until it was too late: Cobalt OS never saw any devices, and the Pre was an ambitious new start but would have had a tough time against the iPhone even if it would have launched earlier than that.

floating-io 3y ago
Wasn't that Handspring rather than palm? [edit: referring to Treo specifically, not the rest...]
- pushedx 3y ago
  Right, it was ex-Palm employees at Handspring that created the Treo. Nice documentary about this with interviews: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9_Vh9h3Ohw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9_Vh9h3Ohw
- classichasclass 3y ago
  Originally, but then Palm bought them.
causality0 3y ago
I'm going to blame it on Palm's flat refusal to move onto PalmOS 6. Every time a new device came out and it was still on PalmOS 5 the whole community was like "what the fuck are you doing?"
fragmede 3y ago
I think it was their lack of vertical integration that did it. there were too many pieces that every developer needed to do, that made it really hard to make apps for it. compare that to the app store where Apple just takes a 30% cut, which is steep, but they do things for that 30%. On the consumer end of things, the actually affordable data plan with att at launch, which is more vertical integration, rather than letting the carriers do their thing, is what did it, imo.

wazoox 3y ago

I had the whole Handspring / Palm smartphone line : Visor + Visor Phone, then Treo 270, then Treo 600, then the Treo 650, and finally the Palm Pré. They were no iPhone, but they were extremely efficient work tools.

bonyt 3y ago

I've heard blame partially put on carriers - they initially resisted even carrying the Treo line without putting limits on what Handspring could do with it. Apple had the iPod - and, crucially, customers - could bring these customers to the carriers, and so they could dictate more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9_Vh9h3Ohw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9_Vh9h3Ohw (the part I'm referencing is about 20 minutes in).