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We've been trying to push FOSS software into peoples lives for many decades now and they still mostly opt for stuff from the big tech. It is very likely that th

by amlib 3y ago

We've been trying to push FOSS software into peoples lives for many decades now and they still mostly opt for stuff from the big tech. It is very likely that the same will happen again with AI unfortunately.

AnthonyMouse 3y ago
The most popular web browsers are open source. Android is open source and the extent that it isn't is the extent that they're running into anti-trust claims. A sizable chunk of the population uses ad blockers. "People don't care" is at best defeatism and at worst explicit propaganda designed to discourage people from making the attempt. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It works more often when you try than when you don't.
- eesmith 3y ago
  The most popular web browsers use open source, but none of Chrome, Edge, or Safari are open source web browsers. They are proprietary freeware.
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    The difference between Chrome and Chromium is that Chrome is marginally worse but largely identical. People mostly install Chrome instead of Chromium by accident because Google markets Chrome and they don't know that Chromium exists and the differences are things they don't strongly care about. But if Chrome ever started doing something they don't like and actually care about, anyone could instantly switch to Chromium and the only difference they'd notice is that it's not doing the thing they don't like anymore.
    - eesmith 2y ago
      Sure, but that statement, while true, does not make Chromium one of 'the most popular web browsers.'
      - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
        Doesn't it? It's the same codebase as Chrome, and not in the sense that they used to be. They still are. Changes to one go into the other. And that code is open source, so anybody who doesn't like what Google is doing with it can create a fork, just like with any other open source project. Arguing that it isn't because the most popular distribution has some proprietary bits in it is like arguing that it isn't because the most popular operating system it runs on is Windows. It doesn't change the fact that if the browser defects against you, you can fork it.
        eesmith 2y ago
        As you wrote, it is not the same code base. It "has some proprietary bits." People have forked it. Is ungoogled Chromium the same codebase as Chrome? What about the Vanadium? Brave? Edge? Opera? Darwin is (or "was" as it no longer really exists) not macOS either, even though changes in macOS went into Darwin.
        AnthonyMouse 2y ago
        The relevant distinction is, is it different enough to have to care? If Chrome suddenly adopts some offensive behavior, how much trouble is it to use Chromium instead? And it's easy. Whereas if you want to use Darwin instead of macOS, it will be missing some things you're immediately going to notice, like the macOS GUI.
        eesmith 2y ago
        No, it is not. For those who want to avoid Google altogether, switching to Chromium does not solve those issues. From https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/09/open_source_unbranded/ https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/09/open_source_unbranded... "there are 50 or so Google services that have been integrated in the Chromium code base." "The services are free but have commercial value by providing data that can be used to inform advertising and marketing algorithms, or in some cases, such as Google Pay, have more obvious benefit to the provider."
- qrobit 3y ago
  While android base is open source(and I appreciate google for that), no major phone vendor uses exclusively open source components. They always adds own proprietary apps and services also most of the time google's. IMO no better than an iphone.
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    That's the anti-trust thing. If Google still wanted to "don't be evil" they'd switch to a license that requires OEMs to allow the user to install custom Android forks on the device.

by amlib 3y ago

AnthonyMouse 3y ago

The most popular web browsers are open source. Android is open source and the extent that it isn't is the extent that they're running into anti-trust claims. A sizable chunk of the population uses ad blockers. "People don't care" is at best defeatism and at worst explicit propaganda designed to discourage people from making the attempt. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It works more often when you try than when you don't.

eesmith 3y ago
The most popular web browsers use open source, but none of Chrome, Edge, or Safari are open source web browsers. They are proprietary freeware.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  The difference between Chrome and Chromium is that Chrome is marginally worse but largely identical. People mostly install Chrome instead of Chromium by accident because Google markets Chrome and they don't know that Chromium exists and the differences are things they don't strongly care about. But if Chrome ever started doing something they don't like and actually care about, anyone could instantly switch to Chromium and the only difference they'd notice is that it's not doing the thing they don't like anymore.
  - eesmith 2y ago
    Sure, but that statement, while true, does not make Chromium one of 'the most popular web browsers.'
    - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      Doesn't it? It's the same codebase as Chrome, and not in the sense that they used to be. They still are. Changes to one go into the other. And that code is open source, so anybody who doesn't like what Google is doing with it can create a fork, just like with any other open source project. Arguing that it isn't because the most popular distribution has some proprietary bits in it is like arguing that it isn't because the most popular operating system it runs on is Windows. It doesn't change the fact that if the browser defects against you, you can fork it.
      - eesmith 2y ago
        As you wrote, it is not the same code base. It "has some proprietary bits." People have forked it. Is ungoogled Chromium the same codebase as Chrome? What about the Vanadium? Brave? Edge? Opera? Darwin is (or "was" as it no longer really exists) not macOS either, even though changes in macOS went into Darwin.
        AnthonyMouse 2y ago
        The relevant distinction is, is it different enough to have to care? If Chrome suddenly adopts some offensive behavior, how much trouble is it to use Chromium instead? And it's easy. Whereas if you want to use Darwin instead of macOS, it will be missing some things you're immediately going to notice, like the macOS GUI.
        eesmith 2y ago
        No, it is not. For those who want to avoid Google altogether, switching to Chromium does not solve those issues. From https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/09/open_source_unbranded/ https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/09/open_source_unbranded... "there are 50 or so Google services that have been integrated in the Chromium code base." "The services are free but have commercial value by providing data that can be used to inform advertising and marketing algorithms, or in some cases, such as Google Pay, have more obvious benefit to the provider."
qrobit 3y ago
While android base is open source(and I appreciate google for that), no major phone vendor uses exclusively open source components. They always adds own proprietary apps and services also most of the time google's. IMO no better than an iphone.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  That's the anti-trust thing. If Google still wanted to "don't be evil" they'd switch to a license that requires OEMs to allow the user to install custom Android forks on the device.