5 ms·

(rants) yep, you are German alright!

MrJohz 2y ago
Truly the worst thing about living in Germany is the apparent national hobby of complaining about things that perhaps aren't great, but really aren't as bad as you might think. In practice, German schools are pretty decent, but they obsess about PISA scores and so neglect to ever notice what the schools are doing well. The train networks are fairly extensive, can be quite cheap depending on how you travel, and consistent across the country, but a lot of Germans would much rather complain about how late they are than recognise anything positive about the system. The general public transport networks (i.e. transport inside towns and cities) are amazing, and one of the things that I would most miss if I went anywhere else. I think part of it is just that if you're German, you rarely see these systems from an outside perspective, so you only see the points that chafe regularly. But another part of it really is just that German tendency to criticise first rather than to view things holistically.
- sien 2y ago
  I went on exchange to Germany. Somehow there should be a ranking of the foreign language abilities of countries. There Germany would do incredibly well. It's strange that people obsess over math school rankings, but how many people do calculus beyond their schooling where as many, many people use a foreign language often in their work. It's a non-BS thing people can learn at school and something that Northern Europeans do spectacularly well at.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- RamblingCTO 2y ago
  I disagree heavily. Just because you have trains going everywhere (that's not a Germany-specific thing) doesn't mean they are allowed to be hours late. The transport system is broken, was destroyed by trying to cut costs in the past. Same with schools and educators. And don't get me started on healthcare. Your sentiment is part of the problem to be honest: Germans are always complaining, it's fine as it is bla bla. It is if you compare yourself to third world countries. But we compete with Japan, Switzerland, the nordics and so on. Also note that this is not a sentiment that is only found in Germans but also a lot of (high value) immigrants who move on after touching base. Germany has a lot of potential but utilizes that very little. Why would I recognize anything positive about the transport system that has a high likelihood of making my trip a nightmare? It's literally the most important thing, to get me from a to b. That doesn't work with massive delays, cancellations, reschedulings and I miss my connections.
  - earthnail 2y ago
    For what it’s worth, I’m German and live in Sweden and the train network is significantly worse than in Germany. There are serious structural deficiencies at Deutsche Bahn, absolutely. But the gras is also always greener elsewhere. The nordics don’t have a better train network. It’s bad enough in Sweden that a Chinese company has started offering the MTRX, basically the ICE equivalent between the two largest cities (although much slower, more like an IC) and that’s the best connection you can get. Imagine the outcry if that was the case in Germany for Munich-Berlin…
    - RamblingCTO 2y ago
      So I've heard. I once did a train trip vom Braunschweig to Narvik. Braunschweig to Hamburg was typical: the waggon I had a reservation in was not provided. So the train was not only late but overfilled. The danish train again from Hamburg to Kopenhagen was perfect. The polar express from Stockholm to Narvik was awesome. On the trip down we had problems with construction and ice, so we were stranded in Abisko. We were taken with buses to a hotel, got food and even got a refund + 700skr deduction for our next trip. No questions asked. The experience was the opposite of the one you get in Germany. No bureaucracy. We got the SMS after Riksgränsen! The next day I couldn't make my original train from Stockholm to Kopenhagen, so the train conductor just got me a new ticket for free. No questions asked. No bureaucracy. Clear communication, situation well handled, all good. So at least this part blew my mind! Also the ticket control by just checking seats. Awesome.
  - MrJohz 2y ago
    I'm comparing this mostly to the UK, which is not a third world country. And to be clear, I agree that DB have been absolutely awful with delays and a lack of proper track maintenance. But to present that as a full picture of the German transport system is to be completely myopic, and that's the issue. Yes, improvement is possible and necessary, but it's also nice to celebrate the successes of your country, and having a single system that covers pretty much all of the country, that integrates regional and intercity travel, that has a transparent and reasonably cost-effective pricing structure, that includes deals like the Länder-Tickets and the 49€ ticket, that is clean, and many other things besides feels like a success to me. Do there need to be changes and improvements? Yes, of course! But this sort of self-flagellation ("oh woe is us, our transport system isn't perfect") is really tiring.
- jonathanstrange 2y ago
  German whining is one of the reasons why I'm glad I've left Germany, but now I've just realized that this is exactly what whiny German abroad would say.
barbazoo 2y ago
In certain parts of Germany the German equivalent of "You really can't complain" is the highest form of praise.
- croes 2y ago
  The sentence "You really can't complain" is a complain itself.
  - dkga 2y ago
    Yes, never noted that!

Truly the worst thing about living in Germany is the apparent national hobby of complaining about things that perhaps aren't great, but really aren't as bad as you might think. In practice, German schools are pretty decent, but they obsess about PISA scores and so neglect to ever notice what the schools are doing well. The train networks are fairly extensive, can be quite cheap depending on how you travel, and consistent across the country, but a lot of Germans would much rather complain about how late they are than recognise anything positive about the system. The general public transport networks (i.e. transport inside towns and cities) are amazing, and one of the things that I would most miss if I went anywhere else. I think part of it is just that if you're German, you rarely see these systems from an outside perspective, so you only see the points that chafe regularly. But another part of it really is just that German tendency to criticise first rather than to view things holistically.

sien 2y ago
I went on exchange to Germany. Somehow there should be a ranking of the foreign language abilities of countries. There Germany would do incredibly well. It's strange that people obsess over math school rankings, but how many people do calculus beyond their schooling where as many, many people use a foreign language often in their work. It's a non-BS thing people can learn at school and something that Northern Europeans do spectacularly well at.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
RamblingCTO 2y ago
I disagree heavily. Just because you have trains going everywhere (that's not a Germany-specific thing) doesn't mean they are allowed to be hours late. The transport system is broken, was destroyed by trying to cut costs in the past. Same with schools and educators. And don't get me started on healthcare. Your sentiment is part of the problem to be honest: Germans are always complaining, it's fine as it is bla bla. It is if you compare yourself to third world countries. But we compete with Japan, Switzerland, the nordics and so on. Also note that this is not a sentiment that is only found in Germans but also a lot of (high value) immigrants who move on after touching base. Germany has a lot of potential but utilizes that very little. Why would I recognize anything positive about the transport system that has a high likelihood of making my trip a nightmare? It's literally the most important thing, to get me from a to b. That doesn't work with massive delays, cancellations, reschedulings and I miss my connections.
- earthnail 2y ago
  For what it’s worth, I’m German and live in Sweden and the train network is significantly worse than in Germany. There are serious structural deficiencies at Deutsche Bahn, absolutely. But the gras is also always greener elsewhere. The nordics don’t have a better train network. It’s bad enough in Sweden that a Chinese company has started offering the MTRX, basically the ICE equivalent between the two largest cities (although much slower, more like an IC) and that’s the best connection you can get. Imagine the outcry if that was the case in Germany for Munich-Berlin…
  - RamblingCTO 2y ago
    So I've heard. I once did a train trip vom Braunschweig to Narvik. Braunschweig to Hamburg was typical: the waggon I had a reservation in was not provided. So the train was not only late but overfilled. The danish train again from Hamburg to Kopenhagen was perfect. The polar express from Stockholm to Narvik was awesome. On the trip down we had problems with construction and ice, so we were stranded in Abisko. We were taken with buses to a hotel, got food and even got a refund + 700skr deduction for our next trip. No questions asked. The experience was the opposite of the one you get in Germany. No bureaucracy. We got the SMS after Riksgränsen! The next day I couldn't make my original train from Stockholm to Kopenhagen, so the train conductor just got me a new ticket for free. No questions asked. No bureaucracy. Clear communication, situation well handled, all good. So at least this part blew my mind! Also the ticket control by just checking seats. Awesome.
- MrJohz 2y ago
  I'm comparing this mostly to the UK, which is not a third world country. And to be clear, I agree that DB have been absolutely awful with delays and a lack of proper track maintenance. But to present that as a full picture of the German transport system is to be completely myopic, and that's the issue. Yes, improvement is possible and necessary, but it's also nice to celebrate the successes of your country, and having a single system that covers pretty much all of the country, that integrates regional and intercity travel, that has a transparent and reasonably cost-effective pricing structure, that includes deals like the Länder-Tickets and the 49€ ticket, that is clean, and many other things besides feels like a success to me. Do there need to be changes and improvements? Yes, of course! But this sort of self-flagellation ("oh woe is us, our transport system isn't perfect") is really tiring.
jonathanstrange 2y ago
German whining is one of the reasons why I'm glad I've left Germany, but now I've just realized that this is exactly what whiny German abroad would say.

barbazoo 2y ago

In certain parts of Germany the German equivalent of "You really can't complain" is the highest form of praise.

croes 2y ago
The sentence "You really can't complain" is a complain itself.
- dkga 2y ago
  Yes, never noted that!