5 ms·

The best I'd say is a sense of collectiveness that is somewhat higher than other countries. It's not nationalism. Rather, there is some amount of willingness t

The best I'd say is a sense of collectiveness that is somewhat higher than other countries. It's not nationalism. Rather, there is some amount of willingness to give up personal comfort for some sort of general/societal greater good. This is really something I've noticed compared to say the UK, Australia, certain asian countries, etc. Not sure why it hasn't translated to improving bureaucracy.

fleshmonad 3y ago
Can you provide some examples of what germans bind together for the "greater good"? I seem to have missed it.
- Archelaos 3y ago
  Almost one million volunteer firefighters (Freiwillige Feuerwehr). These are 96.95 % of all firefighters. (For comparison: the UK quota is 2.31%.)[1] Very popular to participate especially in many rural parts of Germany. [1] Source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiwillige_Feuerwehr#Deutschland https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiwillige_Feuerwehr#Deutschl... (in German)
- ulfw 3y ago
  Following and make the most pedantic rules. Germans loooooove setting rules and expect everyone to follow or else they rat you or or sue you even. (see neighbour conflicts about hedges growing too far etc)
tazjin 3y ago
> The best I'd say is a sense of collectiveness that is somewhat higher than other countries. I wouldn't say that this comes anywhere close to many other countries in Germany. Societal coherence in e.g. Russia or Norway is much higher than in Germany. I think it's rather the other way around: The countries you're comparing to might be exceptionally bad at it, and Germany is average.
- racked 3y ago
  Can you elaborate on societal coherence in Russia? This in particular piques my interest; what I hear from Russia is that it's a place where any interpersonal conflict is resolved with (verbal) violence.
  - kome 3y ago
    interpersonal conflict has nothing to do with societal coherence tho... unless it's a social conflict. and let's say that social conflicts in russia doesn't happen anymore unfortunately. they used to be good at it.
- orthoxerox 3y ago
  > Societal coherence in e.g. Russia or Norway Russia (with the exception of its ethnic minorities) is one of the most atomized societies in Europe, actually. The Russian dream is a house in the exurbs with a three-meter-tall impenetrable fence around the lot where you can do anything you want inside and no one will bother you.
  - shiroiushi 3y ago
    That sounds exactly like the US.
data_maan 3y ago
Collectiveness? I can't wait for the new Nigerian immigrant to swing his beer at Octoberfest arm in arm with the second generation Turk from Munich, all while the waitress, a temporary worker from the Czech Republic, rushes on. It's not going to happen. Social cohesion is very low, and Germany failed to foster a sense of shared values among immigrants.
- fransje26 3y ago
  > I can't wait for the new Nigerian immigrant to swing his beer at Octoberfest arm in arm with the second generation Turk from Munich, all while the waitress, a temporary worker from the Czech Republic, rushes on. Wait, isn't that what's happening already? I'm pretty sure the temporary worker from the Czech Republic is there, as is the second generation Turk voting for Erdogan. Not fully sure about the Nigerian immigrant though.
  - data_maan 3y ago
    Indeed everyone is there. Except that no one is arms in arms with anyone - that was the point I wanted to make. The immigrants mostly live segregated along with their peers, and you rarely have the "melting pot", especially not at the lower socio-economic scale, from what I can see. And that is not good for fostering a collective spirit. The order-abiding nature of Germans collides with the people from country that are more used to bend the rules, so everyone is stressed and unhappy. I guess it's what you call immigration made in Germany.
    - fransje26 3y ago
      Yes, I agree. There will not be arms in arms carousing.. > The order-abiding nature of Germans collides with the people from country that are more used to bend the rules, so everyone is stressed and unhappy. Ah, there is a bit of a cultural misunderstanding right there indeed. In Germany, what is not allowed is forbidden. You need a certain rigidity of mind to be able to think that way. In many other cultures, what is not forbidden is allowed. Meaning that a badly defined rule leaves lots of leeway for a bit of creative thinking. Those are two different worlds careening towards an inevitable collision course..

fleshmonad 3y ago

Can you provide some examples of what germans bind together for the "greater good"? I seem to have missed it.

Archelaos 3y ago
Almost one million volunteer firefighters (Freiwillige Feuerwehr). These are 96.95 % of all firefighters. (For comparison: the UK quota is 2.31%.)[1] Very popular to participate especially in many rural parts of Germany. [1] Source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiwillige_Feuerwehr#Deutschland https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiwillige_Feuerwehr#Deutschl... (in German)
ulfw 3y ago
Following and make the most pedantic rules. Germans loooooove setting rules and expect everyone to follow or else they rat you or or sue you even. (see neighbour conflicts about hedges growing too far etc)

tazjin 3y ago

> The best I'd say is a sense of collectiveness that is somewhat higher than other countries. I wouldn't say that this comes anywhere close to many other countries in Germany. Societal coherence in e.g. Russia or Norway is much higher than in Germany. I think it's rather the other way around: The countries you're comparing to might be exceptionally bad at it, and Germany is average.

racked 3y ago
Can you elaborate on societal coherence in Russia? This in particular piques my interest; what I hear from Russia is that it's a place where any interpersonal conflict is resolved with (verbal) violence.
- kome 3y ago
  interpersonal conflict has nothing to do with societal coherence tho... unless it's a social conflict. and let's say that social conflicts in russia doesn't happen anymore unfortunately. they used to be good at it.
orthoxerox 3y ago
> Societal coherence in e.g. Russia or Norway Russia (with the exception of its ethnic minorities) is one of the most atomized societies in Europe, actually. The Russian dream is a house in the exurbs with a three-meter-tall impenetrable fence around the lot where you can do anything you want inside and no one will bother you.
- shiroiushi 3y ago
  That sounds exactly like the US.

data_maan 3y ago

Collectiveness? I can't wait for the new Nigerian immigrant to swing his beer at Octoberfest arm in arm with the second generation Turk from Munich, all while the waitress, a temporary worker from the Czech Republic, rushes on. It's not going to happen. Social cohesion is very low, and Germany failed to foster a sense of shared values among immigrants.

fransje26 3y ago
> I can't wait for the new Nigerian immigrant to swing his beer at Octoberfest arm in arm with the second generation Turk from Munich, all while the waitress, a temporary worker from the Czech Republic, rushes on. Wait, isn't that what's happening already? I'm pretty sure the temporary worker from the Czech Republic is there, as is the second generation Turk voting for Erdogan. Not fully sure about the Nigerian immigrant though.
- data_maan 3y ago
  Indeed everyone is there. Except that no one is arms in arms with anyone - that was the point I wanted to make. The immigrants mostly live segregated along with their peers, and you rarely have the "melting pot", especially not at the lower socio-economic scale, from what I can see. And that is not good for fostering a collective spirit. The order-abiding nature of Germans collides with the people from country that are more used to bend the rules, so everyone is stressed and unhappy. I guess it's what you call immigration made in Germany.
  - fransje26 3y ago
    Yes, I agree. There will not be arms in arms carousing.. > The order-abiding nature of Germans collides with the people from country that are more used to bend the rules, so everyone is stressed and unhappy. Ah, there is a bit of a cultural misunderstanding right there indeed. In Germany, what is not allowed is forbidden. You need a certain rigidity of mind to be able to think that way. In many other cultures, what is not forbidden is allowed. Meaning that a badly defined rule leaves lots of leeway for a bit of creative thinking. Those are two different worlds careening towards an inevitable collision course..