6 ms·

Little story: So I walk into a bar in Belgrade, Serbia. Turns out to be a private party, lot's of drinking and merry-ment but my girl and I felt a bit out of p

by redwood 14y ago

Little story: So I walk into a bar in Belgrade, Serbia. Turns out to be a private party, lot's of drinking and merry-ment but my girl and I felt a bit out of place. Just before we turned for the door a man pulled me by the shoulder to the bar and started asking what we were doing there, real intimidating-like. He said we could have drinks on him but I felt a little like we didn't want to be indebted to this guy. On the other hand I felt I had no choice. He had asked me what I'd studied and I mentioned physics. He got the bar-tenders attention, got me a drink, and asked me "so... you say you know something about physics... tell me: 'what nationality was Nikola Tesla?'" I responded "Croatian" of course. Suddenly the faces of the man, the bartender, and (so it seemed) the rest of the bar too went very gloomy, eyes piercing into me like shots of raiki (the liquor they drink). I learned that night that the Serbs claim Tesla was a Serbian who lived in Croatia. The Croatians and Serbs (who hate each other very much) both claim him as their national heros. Lessons: - if you're in Serbia, Tesla was a Serbian (and a god) - if you're in Croatia, Tesla was a Croatian (and a god) - if you're anywhere else, well I guess now I know he wasn't god

alushta 14y ago
Well, Tesla really was a Serbian - his father was in fact, a Serbian Orthodox priest, so the documentation on this is clear. Of course, since he was born into the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and studied in Graz, we might as well let the Austrians take credit, as the Austrians really need it (what's Austria's greatest accomplishment? convincing the world that Mozart is Austrian, and Hitler is German!) But really, he did his best work as an American, so USA! USA! USA! :)
- surement 14y ago
  Freud?
  - alushta 14y ago
    Nah, Freud is a Galician Jew, not an Austrian. :)
- JumpCrisscross 14y ago
  Seriously? Economics (von Mises? Morgenstern?), engineering (Ferdinand Porsche? Valier?) philosophy (Popper?), physics (Boltzman? Doppler? Mach? Pauli?), mathematics (heard of this guy Gödel?), genetics (Mendel?), etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Austrians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Austrians
  - DrJokepu 14y ago
    Von Neumann was Jewish, Hungarian and later, American. He was never an Austrian.
    - JumpCrisscross 14y ago
      You are correct - edited. I had always learned of him as an Austro-Hugarian/American :).
  - softbuilder 14y ago
    Don't forget Scwartzenegger
    - alushta 14y ago
      Well, since his favorite phrase is "Hasta la vista, baby", and lives in California, he's obviously a Mexican! :)
  - alushta 14y ago
    von Mises: Galician Jew from Lvov (now a part of the Ukraine) Oskar Morgenstern: German Ferdinand Porsche: German Valier: never heard of this guy until I looked him up just now; a true Austrian - albeit born in Italy and worked in Germany. Damned shame he died so young. Karl Popper: Jew Ludwig Boltzmann: the second real Austrian on this list. Christian Doppler: another real Austrian... Ernst Mach: Volksdeutsche from what is now Czech Republic. Wolfgang Pauli: Czech-Jew, and related to Mach. Kurt Gödel: German AMERICAN, F YEAH!! :) Gregor Mendel: Volksdeutsche, from Silesia (now part of Czech Republic) So I see only 3 Austrian on this list! P.S. the Brits/Finns/Ukrainians/Russians always make a good joke at Germans' expense, but Austria always gets a free pass... I'm trying to right that wrong! :)
batista 14y ago
Where you get that he was Croatian in the first place? "Nikola Tesla was born to Serbian parents in the village of Smiljan, Austrian Empire near the town of Gospić, in the territory of modern-day Croatia. His baptismal certificate reports that he was born on 28 June (N.S. 10 July) 1856 to father Milutin Tesla, a priest in the Serbian Orthodox Church.[12] His mother was Đuka Tesla, née Mandić, whose father was also a Serbian Orthodox priest." It doesn't get any more Serbian.
- streptomycin 14y ago
  > in the territory of modern-day Croatia
  - batista 14y ago
    Which means absolutely nothing. If two Americans have a kid while living in China, would that make him a Chinese?
    - KaoruAoiShiho 14y ago
      Yes? 0.o
      - batista 14y ago
        Huh? The answer is actually no. Not just for the legal (and or trivial) reasons that he wouldn't have neither the ethnicity not the nationality, but he also wouldn't share the chinese culture.
        deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
    - jayliew 14y ago
      People often confuse ethnicity and nationality - you need to be more concrete with your example. Two Caucasians (ethnicity) who are US citizens living in China gives birth to a baby in China, then the baby would be Caucasian (ethnicity), and American (nationality, by US law), but probably also Chinese (nationality, by Chinese law[1]). Maybe that example is not so great because the baby would have dual-citizenship, so consider a different example: 3rd generation Chinese immigrants in the US who are born in America, never left the US to visit China (same as their parents), it is their grand parents who migrated from China. These 3rd generation immigrations are Chinese (ethnicity) and US citizens (nationality), also called Chinese-Americans (format: [ethnicity]-[nationality])[2]. These Chinese-Americans are not citizens of China, but they are ethnic Chinese. Hope that clears up that one small point. [1] Most countries have a 'if you're born here, you get our citizenship automatically' (I'm not sure about China specifically, just using it as an example). [2] easy to mix up and confuse, but order matters here
dctoedt 14y ago
My mother, fiercely proud of being Croatian (her parents immigrated to the U.S.), occasionally boasted that Tesla was "one of us"; she and my dad even named their dog Tesla in honor of him. I once told her Tesla was actually a Serb, the son of an Orthodox priest; she laughed and said with great conviction that I didn't know what I was talking about.
- j45 14y ago
  In some cultures naming your dog after someone is an insult to them, like they were your b.
CWIZO 14y ago
The drink you are referring to is "Rakia", not "raiki". Just so you know :)
- mladenkovacevic 14y ago
  It's "Rakija" ;) but close enough EDIT: OK correction, Wikipedia says it's also spelt rakia .. although I've never seen it written that way.
  - stralep 14y ago
    Could you add any contact info in your profile? :) There are not many people that know joys of rakija on this site :)
    - LeonidasXIV 14y ago
      No people from Crete, Turkey, Bulgaria, Serbia, Macedonia? Really?
      - stralep 14y ago
        None that I had pleasure to drink with :)
    - mladenkovacevic 14y ago
      Certainly.. its just my username @ gmail.com :) Although currently I perform my rakija consumption in Canada
  - pessimizer 14y ago
    probably a Serb/Croat "ije" thing.
  - CWIZO 14y ago
    Could be a Slovenian thing :) I pronounce it that way, but it could be entirely possible that it's spelled "Rakija" (wouldn't know, I'm not a big fan of the drink :)).
sasha-dv 14y ago
- if you're in Croatia, Tesla was a Croatian (and a god) Don't be so sure. During the recent war they burned his memorial house and destroyed the monument in front of it. They also demolished his monument in the nearby town of Gospic at the beginning of the recent war and it appears they don't want it back: http://bit.ly/JnSQkg http://bit.ly/JnSQkg
- JoeCamel 14y ago
  "The recent war" (1991-1995), or Croatian War of Independence, was a mess and things like that happened. It doesn't mean anything. In Croatian schools, they always say Tesla was Serbian and born in Croatian territory. Both Croatians and Serbs are proud of him, I guess. As for mutual hatred, many people lost their families in the war, and obviously many Serbs were part of the aggression, so the relationship is no wonder. Anyway, the article is great! Just what I needed.
  - sasha-dv 14y ago
    As for mutual hatred, many people lost their families in the war, and obviously many Serbs were part of the aggression, so the relationship is no wonder. The hatred dates well before the 1990ies. See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp. The more you know, the less you want to know.
mladenkovacevic 14y ago
1) I doubt either nation considers him a god.. just really proud of his accomplishments... although under a healthy influence of rakija I don't think a discussion with your "host" about pretty much anything would have been reasonable. 2) In Serbia you don't have to feel indebted when someone offers you a drink. I believe this is true for many "old-school" cultures. I realize it might seem intimidating or aggressive but don't fear. Just have a drink ;) 3) Nikola Tesla was Serbian. And yes he was born in Croatia (there are lots of us)... but I have a feeling your host would've been more offended had you replied "Who?". Either way you made it out of there in one piece didn't you?
nikcub 14y ago
Tesla's parents were both from a long lineage of Serbian Orthodox clergy. He was definitely Serbian, I doubt many Croatians claim him as their own, he just happens to be from a part of Croatia that was very Serbian prior to the last few years. My family on my mothers side is from the same pert of ex-Yugoslavia and large parts of the Serbian diaspora who emigrated are from parts of old Yugoslavia that are no longer in Serbia proper or the Serbian part of Bosnia. The confusion came about for two reasons. 1. that Krajina became part of Croatia (that part of Yugoslavia) and 2. the old unifying Yugoslav government claimed Tesla as one of their own, and they did what they could to rid of ethnic divides so referred to everybody as 'Yugoslav' (or 'Yugoslav from Croatia' etc.). This gets even uglier with the recent war where nationalists from all sides attempted to claim historic figures and celebrities as their own in an effort of ethnic superiority propaganda. (The funniest example of this was the President of Croatia leading an archeological dig in a part of Croatia where he discovered that the Croatian nation pre-dated the Roman empire - it got really messy). This really muddied the waters. Most people in the region are pretty chilled out now, though - as a Serbian I have no problem with Croatians referring to Tesla as 'one of us', just as I often refer to Croatian football players as 'one of mine' (being from the Balkans). There is a lot more that unites us as a people than divides us.

by redwood 14y ago

alushta 14y ago

Well, Tesla really was a Serbian - his father was in fact, a Serbian Orthodox priest, so the documentation on this is clear. Of course, since he was born into the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and studied in Graz, we might as well let the Austrians take credit, as the Austrians really need it (what's Austria's greatest accomplishment? convincing the world that Mozart is Austrian, and Hitler is German!) But really, he did his best work as an American, so USA! USA! USA! :)

surement 14y ago
Freud?
- alushta 14y ago
  Nah, Freud is a Galician Jew, not an Austrian. :)
JumpCrisscross 14y ago
Seriously? Economics (von Mises? Morgenstern?), engineering (Ferdinand Porsche? Valier?) philosophy (Popper?), physics (Boltzman? Doppler? Mach? Pauli?), mathematics (heard of this guy Gödel?), genetics (Mendel?), etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Austrians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Austrians
- DrJokepu 14y ago
  Von Neumann was Jewish, Hungarian and later, American. He was never an Austrian.
  - JumpCrisscross 14y ago
    You are correct - edited. I had always learned of him as an Austro-Hugarian/American :).
- softbuilder 14y ago
  Don't forget Scwartzenegger
  - alushta 14y ago
    Well, since his favorite phrase is "Hasta la vista, baby", and lives in California, he's obviously a Mexican! :)
- alushta 14y ago
  von Mises: Galician Jew from Lvov (now a part of the Ukraine) Oskar Morgenstern: German Ferdinand Porsche: German Valier: never heard of this guy until I looked him up just now; a true Austrian - albeit born in Italy and worked in Germany. Damned shame he died so young. Karl Popper: Jew Ludwig Boltzmann: the second real Austrian on this list. Christian Doppler: another real Austrian... Ernst Mach: Volksdeutsche from what is now Czech Republic. Wolfgang Pauli: Czech-Jew, and related to Mach. Kurt Gödel: German AMERICAN, F YEAH!! :) Gregor Mendel: Volksdeutsche, from Silesia (now part of Czech Republic) So I see only 3 Austrian on this list! P.S. the Brits/Finns/Ukrainians/Russians always make a good joke at Germans' expense, but Austria always gets a free pass... I'm trying to right that wrong! :)

batista 14y ago

Where you get that he was Croatian in the first place? "Nikola Tesla was born to Serbian parents in the village of Smiljan, Austrian Empire near the town of Gospić, in the territory of modern-day Croatia. His baptismal certificate reports that he was born on 28 June (N.S. 10 July) 1856 to father Milutin Tesla, a priest in the Serbian Orthodox Church.[12] His mother was Đuka Tesla, née Mandić, whose father was also a Serbian Orthodox priest." It doesn't get any more Serbian.

streptomycin 14y ago
> in the territory of modern-day Croatia
- batista 14y ago
  Which means absolutely nothing. If two Americans have a kid while living in China, would that make him a Chinese?
  - KaoruAoiShiho 14y ago
    Yes? 0.o
    - batista 14y ago
      Huh? The answer is actually no. Not just for the legal (and or trivial) reasons that he wouldn't have neither the ethnicity not the nationality, but he also wouldn't share the chinese culture.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
  - jayliew 14y ago
    People often confuse ethnicity and nationality - you need to be more concrete with your example. Two Caucasians (ethnicity) who are US citizens living in China gives birth to a baby in China, then the baby would be Caucasian (ethnicity), and American (nationality, by US law), but probably also Chinese (nationality, by Chinese law[1]). Maybe that example is not so great because the baby would have dual-citizenship, so consider a different example: 3rd generation Chinese immigrants in the US who are born in America, never left the US to visit China (same as their parents), it is their grand parents who migrated from China. These 3rd generation immigrations are Chinese (ethnicity) and US citizens (nationality), also called Chinese-Americans (format: [ethnicity]-[nationality])[2]. These Chinese-Americans are not citizens of China, but they are ethnic Chinese. Hope that clears up that one small point. [1] Most countries have a 'if you're born here, you get our citizenship automatically' (I'm not sure about China specifically, just using it as an example). [2] easy to mix up and confuse, but order matters here

dctoedt 14y ago

My mother, fiercely proud of being Croatian (her parents immigrated to the U.S.), occasionally boasted that Tesla was "one of us"; she and my dad even named their dog Tesla in honor of him. I once told her Tesla was actually a Serb, the son of an Orthodox priest; she laughed and said with great conviction that I didn't know what I was talking about.

j45 14y ago
In some cultures naming your dog after someone is an insult to them, like they were your b.

CWIZO 14y ago

The drink you are referring to is "Rakia", not "raiki". Just so you know :)

mladenkovacevic 14y ago
It's "Rakija" ;) but close enough EDIT: OK correction, Wikipedia says it's also spelt rakia .. although I've never seen it written that way.
- stralep 14y ago
  Could you add any contact info in your profile? :) There are not many people that know joys of rakija on this site :)
  - LeonidasXIV 14y ago
    No people from Crete, Turkey, Bulgaria, Serbia, Macedonia? Really?
    - stralep 14y ago
      None that I had pleasure to drink with :)
  - mladenkovacevic 14y ago
    Certainly.. its just my username @ gmail.com :) Although currently I perform my rakija consumption in Canada
- pessimizer 14y ago
  probably a Serb/Croat "ije" thing.
- CWIZO 14y ago
  Could be a Slovenian thing :) I pronounce it that way, but it could be entirely possible that it's spelled "Rakija" (wouldn't know, I'm not a big fan of the drink :)).

sasha-dv 14y ago

- if you're in Croatia, Tesla was a Croatian (and a god) Don't be so sure. During the recent war they burned his memorial house and destroyed the monument in front of it. They also demolished his monument in the nearby town of Gospic at the beginning of the recent war and it appears they don't want it back: http://bit.ly/JnSQkg http://bit.ly/JnSQkg

JoeCamel 14y ago
"The recent war" (1991-1995), or Croatian War of Independence, was a mess and things like that happened. It doesn't mean anything. In Croatian schools, they always say Tesla was Serbian and born in Croatian territory. Both Croatians and Serbs are proud of him, I guess. As for mutual hatred, many people lost their families in the war, and obviously many Serbs were part of the aggression, so the relationship is no wonder. Anyway, the article is great! Just what I needed.
- sasha-dv 14y ago
  As for mutual hatred, many people lost their families in the war, and obviously many Serbs were part of the aggression, so the relationship is no wonder. The hatred dates well before the 1990ies. See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp. The more you know, the less you want to know.

mladenkovacevic 14y ago

1) I doubt either nation considers him a god.. just really proud of his accomplishments... although under a healthy influence of rakija I don't think a discussion with your "host" about pretty much anything would have been reasonable. 2) In Serbia you don't have to feel indebted when someone offers you a drink. I believe this is true for many "old-school" cultures. I realize it might seem intimidating or aggressive but don't fear. Just have a drink ;) 3) Nikola Tesla was Serbian. And yes he was born in Croatia (there are lots of us)... but I have a feeling your host would've been more offended had you replied "Who?". Either way you made it out of there in one piece didn't you?

nikcub 14y ago

Tesla's parents were both from a long lineage of Serbian Orthodox clergy. He was definitely Serbian, I doubt many Croatians claim him as their own, he just happens to be from a part of Croatia that was very Serbian prior to the last few years. My family on my mothers side is from the same pert of ex-Yugoslavia and large parts of the Serbian diaspora who emigrated are from parts of old Yugoslavia that are no longer in Serbia proper or the Serbian part of Bosnia. The confusion came about for two reasons. 1. that Krajina became part of Croatia (that part of Yugoslavia) and 2. the old unifying Yugoslav government claimed Tesla as one of their own, and they did what they could to rid of ethnic divides so referred to everybody as 'Yugoslav' (or 'Yugoslav from Croatia' etc.). This gets even uglier with the recent war where nationalists from all sides attempted to claim historic figures and celebrities as their own in an effort of ethnic superiority propaganda. (The funniest example of this was the President of Croatia leading an archeological dig in a part of Croatia where he discovered that the Croatian nation pre-dated the Roman empire - it got really messy). This really muddied the waters. Most people in the region are pretty chilled out now, though - as a Serbian I have no problem with Croatians referring to Tesla as 'one of us', just as I often refer to Croatian football players as 'one of mine' (being from the Balkans). There is a lot more that unites us as a people than divides us.