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I have a hard time believing there are many scams that have succeeded specifically because the scammer was permitted to set up an LLC with nominal share capital

I have a hard time believing there are many scams that have succeeded specifically because the scammer was permitted to set up an LLC with nominal share capital (at least in the last few decades). In the business world it is pretty standard to do due diligence and get collateral for any material exposure to an LLC. So the people who would be taken in would mainly be the vulnerable and uneducated who could likely be scammed without an LLC. There are additional protections against scams via various laws relating to bankruptcy, creditor protection and "piercing the corporate veil" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil). Not to mention that the minimum capital requirement is unlikely to deter any determined scammer. All you're really doing is making life slightly difficult for scammers who can't scrape together €12.5k in capital, while simultaneously also making life hard for all the legitimate contractors and (would-be) entrepreneurs who can't scrape together that amount.

awesomeMilou 3y ago
If you read the German version of the Wikipedia article you linked, you'll find that this concept is rarely, and I mean _rarely_ applied by courts. It is also case law, which is exceedingly rare in German law. You're going to have a hard time arguing for it's application in court. Regardless, most laws around incorporation in Germany are a deterrent to any founder, I agree, but I honestly think we don't want this as a society. German culture is about work, and working for _someone_, not starting your own business. I agree it could, and should be easier, at the same time you won't change a system that evolved from medieval trade guilds.
- data_maan 3y ago
  > German culture is about work, and working for _someone_, not starting your own business. I wonder how Germany will survive the 21st century, where a key part is to make/capture a market first by some innovation that comes out of some startup scene (Silicon Valley most prominently) and push out all the other players. German's in tech spheres keep complaining that they are being "ripped of" by the Anglo-Saxon space, but it seems to me it's actually their own mentality that is holding them back. And of course everyone knows the story about the mp3 format, apparently invented in Germany and monetized in the US

awesomeMilou 3y ago

If you read the German version of the Wikipedia article you linked, you'll find that this concept is rarely, and I mean _rarely_ applied by courts. It is also case law, which is exceedingly rare in German law. You're going to have a hard time arguing for it's application in court. Regardless, most laws around incorporation in Germany are a deterrent to any founder, I agree, but I honestly think we don't want this as a society. German culture is about work, and working for _someone_, not starting your own business. I agree it could, and should be easier, at the same time you won't change a system that evolved from medieval trade guilds.

data_maan 3y ago
> German culture is about work, and working for _someone_, not starting your own business. I wonder how Germany will survive the 21st century, where a key part is to make/capture a market first by some innovation that comes out of some startup scene (Silicon Valley most prominently) and push out all the other players. German's in tech spheres keep complaining that they are being "ripped of" by the Anglo-Saxon space, but it seems to me it's actually their own mentality that is holding them back. And of course everyone knows the story about the mp3 format, apparently invented in Germany and monetized in the US