4 ms·

California malls as we know them are dying. Here's what comes next

12 points by elsewhen 2y ago

m463 2y ago
> If malls are to succeed, they need a diverse set of offerings that naturally captures visitors’ attention for entire days. if that's true, why did westfield valley fair start charging for parking? wouldn't that chase people away instead of spending significant time there?
- paulddraper 2y ago
  Like....in Australia?
- avidiax 2y ago
  > Fees: 0-2 hours FREE; 2-3 hours $2; 3-4 hours $4; 4-5 hours $6; 5-6 hours $8; 6-7 hours $10; 10+ hours a maximum daily rate of $10. Not exactly extortionate, and the website explains that this keeps people from leaving cars there overnight or using it as a park-n-ride. Yeah, in principle, if I go see Dune II and get a quick lunch they could spot me the $4 parking fee, but at least it's easy to find parking because the lot isn't full. https://www.westfield.com/united-states/valleyfair/parking https://www.westfield.com/united-states/valleyfair/parking
  - m463 2y ago
    I just think - tax what you want less of. I understand you don't want people avoiding the mall altogether because of the parking problem. But I think there is probably a shopping revenue dollar value you could associate with each occupied parking spot. (I also know some wealthy people who would leave before 2 hours is up, even if they could afford it)
  - Ekaros 2y ago
    Could be solved by allowing business give free parking hours or tiers. So visit a shop and pay for something and you get 2 free hours.
pedalpete 2y ago
I'm amazed how popular the Westfield at Bondi Junction in Australia still is, it's like Australians missed the whole "nobody goes to the mall anymore" message. California is full of malls. I thought one use would be to convert them into vertical(ish) farms. You have tall open spaces, large areas for shipping, a local workforce, and potentially local sales as well. However, just last week I was reading that the business model for vertical farms just doesn't work....yet.
- kalleboo 2y ago
  > it's like Australians missed the whole "nobody goes to the mall anymore" message Same in Japan. I live in a depopulating city yet in the past 10 years we've gotten like 4 new malls (all in the walkable downtown, with eating/drinking on the ground floor).
- billy99k 2y ago
  I also noticed this in Vietnam. The malls were packed with people every time I went there. It reminded me of the 80s/90s in the US
kylehotchkiss 2y ago
SD has two thriving malls - UTC and fashion valley. Both seem to pushing out lower end retail and replacing with upscale brands. That seems to be resonating, plus a lot of people come up from Mexico to shop in SD. South coast plaza / Irvine Spectrum Center in OC seems to be doing okay too.
matrix87 2y ago
maybe in sf but not really anywhere else
hahahamallszzz 2y ago
Ha! Maybe people got subconsciously sick of The Gruen Transfer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruen_transfer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruen_transfer
reducesuffering 2y ago
There is little point to a covered indoor mall in California's weather. Where most of the indoor malls in the Bay Area are deserted, outdoor mall Santana Row is thriving and is actually where it's possible for someone outside the area to want to visit.

12 points by elsewhen 2y ago

m463 2y ago

> If malls are to succeed, they need a diverse set of offerings that naturally captures visitors’ attention for entire days. if that's true, why did westfield valley fair start charging for parking? wouldn't that chase people away instead of spending significant time there?

paulddraper 2y ago
Like....in Australia?
avidiax 2y ago
> Fees: 0-2 hours FREE; 2-3 hours $2; 3-4 hours $4; 4-5 hours $6; 5-6 hours $8; 6-7 hours $10; 10+ hours a maximum daily rate of $10. Not exactly extortionate, and the website explains that this keeps people from leaving cars there overnight or using it as a park-n-ride. Yeah, in principle, if I go see Dune II and get a quick lunch they could spot me the $4 parking fee, but at least it's easy to find parking because the lot isn't full. https://www.westfield.com/united-states/valleyfair/parking https://www.westfield.com/united-states/valleyfair/parking
- m463 2y ago
  I just think - tax what you want less of. I understand you don't want people avoiding the mall altogether because of the parking problem. But I think there is probably a shopping revenue dollar value you could associate with each occupied parking spot. (I also know some wealthy people who would leave before 2 hours is up, even if they could afford it)
- Ekaros 2y ago
  Could be solved by allowing business give free parking hours or tiers. So visit a shop and pay for something and you get 2 free hours.

pedalpete 2y ago

I'm amazed how popular the Westfield at Bondi Junction in Australia still is, it's like Australians missed the whole "nobody goes to the mall anymore" message. California is full of malls. I thought one use would be to convert them into vertical(ish) farms. You have tall open spaces, large areas for shipping, a local workforce, and potentially local sales as well. However, just last week I was reading that the business model for vertical farms just doesn't work....yet.

kalleboo 2y ago
> it's like Australians missed the whole "nobody goes to the mall anymore" message Same in Japan. I live in a depopulating city yet in the past 10 years we've gotten like 4 new malls (all in the walkable downtown, with eating/drinking on the ground floor).
billy99k 2y ago
I also noticed this in Vietnam. The malls were packed with people every time I went there. It reminded me of the 80s/90s in the US

kylehotchkiss 2y ago

SD has two thriving malls - UTC and fashion valley. Both seem to pushing out lower end retail and replacing with upscale brands. That seems to be resonating, plus a lot of people come up from Mexico to shop in SD. South coast plaza / Irvine Spectrum Center in OC seems to be doing okay too.

matrix87 2y ago

maybe in sf but not really anywhere else

hahahamallszzz 2y ago

Ha! Maybe people got subconsciously sick of The Gruen Transfer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruen_transfer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruen_transfer

reducesuffering 2y ago

There is little point to a covered indoor mall in California's weather. Where most of the indoor malls in the Bay Area are deserted, outdoor mall Santana Row is thriving and is actually where it's possible for someone outside the area to want to visit.