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Is this needed because motherboards no longer include any floppy drive channels? I'm not yet grasping why Greaseweazle is better than a standard cheapy USB flo

Is this needed because motherboards no longer include any floppy drive channels? I'm not yet grasping why Greaseweazle is better than a standard cheapy USB floppy drive. Greaseweazle is undisputable an awesome name for a project, though. Edit: Thanks for the clarifications :)

NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
This isn't a standard floppy drive controller; it's a low-level device that allows you access the disk at the raw, magnetic domain kind of level. This means it can read or write all kinds of formats that are typically not accessible on standard floppy controllers like "variable speed" systems used on old 400/800KB Mac disks.
bilegeek 3y ago
> Is this needed because motherboards no longer include any floppy drive channels? Yes, partially. > I'm not yet grasping why Greaseweazle is better than a standard cheapy USB floppy drive. 1.) Support for non-standard formats. 2.) Ability to capture raw flux images, bypassing the limitations of actual floppy controllers, and allowing for weird formats to be preserved and written (ex. of flux images bypassing rare hardware restrictions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCU4xbHFb58&t=1538s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCU4xbHFb58&t=1538s) 3.) Can allow for drives with weird quirks.
- EvanAnderson 3y ago
  > ...Ability to capture raw flux image... It's sort of "raw flux" but it's still in the digital domain. The drive's pre-amp, gain control, and ADC are still in the loop. Tapping the direct output of the heads would really be raw flux (and would allow creating a completely software-defined "floppy drive").
renaudg 3y ago
A typical use case for it is to dump Amiga disks, which are physically 3.5" disks but whose 880KB format is unreadable by a standard PC floppy controller.
- duskwuff 3y ago
  And to preserve old copy-protected floppy disks which used strange formats and/or deliberate errors to thwart copying tools.
  - actionfromafar 3y ago
    Even some PC floppies can't be read by the cheap USB-floppy drives on Amazon. They typically expect exactly 1.44 megabyte floppies. Format it slightly differently, and those USB drives can't see it, even if the floppy would have worked just fine in any "real" floppy drive connected to the floppy interface on the motherboard.
zdw 3y ago
I have an greaseweasel and 3.5" floppy mounted internally in a system used for utility tasks. It's pretty handy to have it all ready to go for unusual floppies.
- bilegeek 3y ago
  If it's a modern case, how do you deal with dust?
  - actionfromafar 3y ago
    Not sure what you are thinking of, but if the case have big enough mesh/holes on the side of the case, there won't be much air suction through the floppy port.
  - zdw 3y ago
    Case is from a ~2008 era Acer Aspire M5640 with newer guts, which happens to have a door slide mechanism that covers the two external 3.5" bays with semi-transparent plastic, and an array of top-mounted USB 2.0 ports. It's probably one of the nicer tool-free OEM mATX cases out there - no nonstandard parts, edges aren't sharp, and generally easy to route cables in.
daneel_w 3y ago
> "Is this needed because motherboards no longer include any floppy drive channels?" Not really. As you point out, the lack of floppy controller on modern PC motherboards can be solved with a regular USB floppy drive. The Greaseweazle is an incredibly versatile floppy controller which is able to do raw/low-level reads of practically any known disk format out there, making it a great tool for rescue/archiving and as a one-size-fits-all option. I bought one myself in order to "dump" and preserve about a thousand Amiga disks of my own, many of which contain stuff I created in the 1990s.
Tor3 3y ago
USB floppy controllers are very different from "real" floppy controllers. USB controllers are doing the floppy formats in firmware, so the PC it connects to can only use it for formats the USB controller knows about, which is typically just your standard PC formats (one or two). Traditional controllers are way more flexible and is only limited to what kind of flux modulation they can handle (an Adaptec AHA-1522A can handle FM, for example, while the later ones can't). Then it's up to your software what you can read. I use an old PC (old enough to have a floppy drive and a good controller, but new enough to have ethernet) to read non-PC floppy disks of many different formats. But certain stuff it can't do, and that's typically Apple and Commodore. For that you need a direct flux reader like the Greaseweazle or Kryoflux or one of the others.
Luc 3y ago
> standard cheapy USB floppy drive. The cheap ones with brands that seem to consist of random syllables are laptop drives harvested from e-junk and placed into a USB housing.

NovemberWhiskey 3y ago

This isn't a standard floppy drive controller; it's a low-level device that allows you access the disk at the raw, magnetic domain kind of level. This means it can read or write all kinds of formats that are typically not accessible on standard floppy controllers like "variable speed" systems used on old 400/800KB Mac disks.

bilegeek 3y ago

> Is this needed because motherboards no longer include any floppy drive channels? Yes, partially. > I'm not yet grasping why Greaseweazle is better than a standard cheapy USB floppy drive. 1.) Support for non-standard formats. 2.) Ability to capture raw flux images, bypassing the limitations of actual floppy controllers, and allowing for weird formats to be preserved and written (ex. of flux images bypassing rare hardware restrictions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCU4xbHFb58&t=1538s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCU4xbHFb58&t=1538s) 3.) Can allow for drives with weird quirks.

EvanAnderson 3y ago
> ...Ability to capture raw flux image... It's sort of "raw flux" but it's still in the digital domain. The drive's pre-amp, gain control, and ADC are still in the loop. Tapping the direct output of the heads would really be raw flux (and would allow creating a completely software-defined "floppy drive").

renaudg 3y ago

A typical use case for it is to dump Amiga disks, which are physically 3.5" disks but whose 880KB format is unreadable by a standard PC floppy controller.

duskwuff 3y ago
And to preserve old copy-protected floppy disks which used strange formats and/or deliberate errors to thwart copying tools.
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  Even some PC floppies can't be read by the cheap USB-floppy drives on Amazon. They typically expect exactly 1.44 megabyte floppies. Format it slightly differently, and those USB drives can't see it, even if the floppy would have worked just fine in any "real" floppy drive connected to the floppy interface on the motherboard.

zdw 3y ago

I have an greaseweasel and 3.5" floppy mounted internally in a system used for utility tasks. It's pretty handy to have it all ready to go for unusual floppies.

bilegeek 3y ago
If it's a modern case, how do you deal with dust?
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  Not sure what you are thinking of, but if the case have big enough mesh/holes on the side of the case, there won't be much air suction through the floppy port.
- zdw 3y ago
  Case is from a ~2008 era Acer Aspire M5640 with newer guts, which happens to have a door slide mechanism that covers the two external 3.5" bays with semi-transparent plastic, and an array of top-mounted USB 2.0 ports. It's probably one of the nicer tool-free OEM mATX cases out there - no nonstandard parts, edges aren't sharp, and generally easy to route cables in.

daneel_w 3y ago

> "Is this needed because motherboards no longer include any floppy drive channels?" Not really. As you point out, the lack of floppy controller on modern PC motherboards can be solved with a regular USB floppy drive. The Greaseweazle is an incredibly versatile floppy controller which is able to do raw/low-level reads of practically any known disk format out there, making it a great tool for rescue/archiving and as a one-size-fits-all option. I bought one myself in order to "dump" and preserve about a thousand Amiga disks of my own, many of which contain stuff I created in the 1990s.

Tor3 3y ago

USB floppy controllers are very different from "real" floppy controllers. USB controllers are doing the floppy formats in firmware, so the PC it connects to can only use it for formats the USB controller knows about, which is typically just your standard PC formats (one or two). Traditional controllers are way more flexible and is only limited to what kind of flux modulation they can handle (an Adaptec AHA-1522A can handle FM, for example, while the later ones can't). Then it's up to your software what you can read. I use an old PC (old enough to have a floppy drive and a good controller, but new enough to have ethernet) to read non-PC floppy disks of many different formats. But certain stuff it can't do, and that's typically Apple and Commodore. For that you need a direct flux reader like the Greaseweazle or Kryoflux or one of the others.

Luc 3y ago

> standard cheapy USB floppy drive. The cheap ones with brands that seem to consist of random syllables are laptop drives harvested from e-junk and placed into a USB housing.