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> It's big enough to lock out many potential small business founders. They can open an Einzelunternehmen (sole proprietorship) instead. You shouldn't (and cann

> It's big enough to lock out many potential small business founders. They can open an Einzelunternehmen (sole proprietorship) instead. You shouldn't (and cannot) go all the way to the complexities of a GmbH (LLC) if your company is that tiny. > But also many ordinary inexperienced people can have that amount of money up front, yet still be deterred by the complexity of a 6 week long incorporation process as described in this article. Back to my point then. If they're not ready to put up with okay-ish bureaucratic friction in the founding phase, they're not ready to open a company. Because if you think opening the company is hard, wait until payroll or tax season is upon you. > I am generally suspicious of rhetoric like "you're a little well off, so we can heap arbitrary amounts of bullshit on you and you shouldn't complain". You're completely mischaracterizing what I said. Don't do that.

_dain_ 3y ago
>They can open an Einzelunternehmen (sole proprietorship) instead. Sole proprietorship doesn't have liability protection. That's not a small thing. >You shouldn't (and cannot) go all the way to the complexities of a GmbH (LLC) if your company is that tiny. "[Thing] is too complex, don't bother with it" is not an argument against making [thing] less complex. It's actually just a restatement of the problem! Other countries make it easy to set up a limited company. UK, US, Singapore, they're all just a token fee and a handful of forms. I see no reason for Germany to make it so difficult as described in the article. A lot of successful companies were started by broke college grads out of their dorms; they would never have gotten off the ground if they had to scrounge together the equivalent 25k euros before even getting started. Hell, I don't have a spare 25k lying around and I've been working full time for 4 years.
- pantalaimon 3y ago
  You can create a UG (haftungsbeschränkt) with all the lability protection of a GmbH with 1€ capital.
  - rad_gruchalski 3y ago
    Yes, but you need to keep one third of the profit in the company until you reach the €25k, then you convert to GmbH.
    - tainted_blood 3y ago
      i don't see a problem with that.
      - rad_gruchalski 3y ago
        I haven't said it's a problem but virtually everyone pointing at UG as a fix to GmbH Stammkapital fails to mention it.
data_maan 3y ago
> If they're not ready to put up with okay-ish bureaucratic friction in the founding phase, they're not ready to open a company. With this mentality, it's actually a miracle a German startup scene exists at all. The _last thing_ a founder wants is to wade through useless bureaucracy when there's a product to push and Vacs to talk to. But Germany never really was a founder's country, and much more ruled by big conglomerates it seems or small family business who did non-innovative things (the bakery at the corner - necessary&nice, but not innovative), than startup culture.

_dain_ 3y ago

>They can open an Einzelunternehmen (sole proprietorship) instead. Sole proprietorship doesn't have liability protection. That's not a small thing. >You shouldn't (and cannot) go all the way to the complexities of a GmbH (LLC) if your company is that tiny. "[Thing] is too complex, don't bother with it" is not an argument against making [thing] less complex. It's actually just a restatement of the problem! Other countries make it easy to set up a limited company. UK, US, Singapore, they're all just a token fee and a handful of forms. I see no reason for Germany to make it so difficult as described in the article. A lot of successful companies were started by broke college grads out of their dorms; they would never have gotten off the ground if they had to scrounge together the equivalent 25k euros before even getting started. Hell, I don't have a spare 25k lying around and I've been working full time for 4 years.

pantalaimon 3y ago
You can create a UG (haftungsbeschränkt) with all the lability protection of a GmbH with 1€ capital.
- rad_gruchalski 3y ago
  Yes, but you need to keep one third of the profit in the company until you reach the €25k, then you convert to GmbH.
  - tainted_blood 3y ago
    i don't see a problem with that.
    - rad_gruchalski 3y ago
      I haven't said it's a problem but virtually everyone pointing at UG as a fix to GmbH Stammkapital fails to mention it.

data_maan 3y ago

> If they're not ready to put up with okay-ish bureaucratic friction in the founding phase, they're not ready to open a company. With this mentality, it's actually a miracle a German startup scene exists at all. The _last thing_ a founder wants is to wade through useless bureaucracy when there's a product to push and Vacs to talk to. But Germany never really was a founder's country, and much more ruled by big conglomerates it seems or small family business who did non-innovative things (the bakery at the corner - necessary&nice, but not innovative), than startup culture.