3 ms·

Even if from a technical perspective you're right, I think people need to be careful with the "x is not special" talk. It is a put down and it's how things like

Even if from a technical perspective you're right, I think people need to be careful with the "x is not special" talk. It is a put down and it's how things like human and animal rights get obliterated and how the environment gets ruined. "Trees aren't special", "Dolphins aren't special", "Koala's suck, let's put a mine here instead", "Pigs don't have emotions or are dumb, so it's fine to factory farm" etc.

ben_w 3y ago
Indeed. But I said "X is not magic", rather than "X is not special" — until we have an answer to the hard problem of consciousness (or agree which of the 40 definitions of the word "consciousness" we're using when discussing if an AI has it), we can't possibly determine if an LLM has it or not. (My gut feeling says "LLMs are not conscious", but my gut has had a lot of false beliefs over the years as well as correct ones, so I give it a corresponding level of trust).
- CooCooCaCha 3y ago
  My gut feeling is that consciousness isn’t as deep and mysterious as people think it is. It’s possible that consciousness is an inevitable result of putting a sufficiently intelligent mind into a body and, as a result, the mind can’t help but weave a story about itself that connects events together. Similarly with other properties of intelligence and the brain that we like to think are mysterious and deep.
  - deleted 3y ago
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- bamboozled 3y ago
  Fair enough then. I sort of use the terms interchangeably in this context. When you think about it, a bird is “magic” in the sense there is a whole universe and eco system to give that bird the platform for existence. A real living bird isn’t just a concept. So sometimes I wonder if we just say we’re insignificant because it’s a simpler way to think. It makes the idea of death and loss easier to bear. If I tell myself I’m just a spec of dust and that I’m bit special, it can be quite comforting. Conceptually we understand things about how birds work but the fact there is a blob of millions or billions of cells functioning to produce a bird, which can fly, completely autonomously is quite peculiar and there is a type of magic or wonder to it all which makes me think birds are both special and magic if you think differently about existence and not just the intellectual concept of a bird.
looseyesterday 3y ago
I don't get the argument. I don't think something being magic will stop humans from exploiting it. At the end of the day intelligent people are great at coming up with excuses as to why they should do something bad. "Just chop that one tree down, its in the wrong place anyway" "Just kill that one dolphin, its old anyway" when taken together these add up to bad outcomes we dislike. Much better to discourage / fine / ban all tree chopping and dolphin killing and let select professionals remove sick trees and dolphins.

ben_w 3y ago

Indeed. But I said "X is not magic", rather than "X is not special" — until we have an answer to the hard problem of consciousness (or agree which of the 40 definitions of the word "consciousness" we're using when discussing if an AI has it), we can't possibly determine if an LLM has it or not. (My gut feeling says "LLMs are not conscious", but my gut has had a lot of false beliefs over the years as well as correct ones, so I give it a corresponding level of trust).

CooCooCaCha 3y ago
My gut feeling is that consciousness isn’t as deep and mysterious as people think it is. It’s possible that consciousness is an inevitable result of putting a sufficiently intelligent mind into a body and, as a result, the mind can’t help but weave a story about itself that connects events together. Similarly with other properties of intelligence and the brain that we like to think are mysterious and deep.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
bamboozled 3y ago
Fair enough then. I sort of use the terms interchangeably in this context. When you think about it, a bird is “magic” in the sense there is a whole universe and eco system to give that bird the platform for existence. A real living bird isn’t just a concept. So sometimes I wonder if we just say we’re insignificant because it’s a simpler way to think. It makes the idea of death and loss easier to bear. If I tell myself I’m just a spec of dust and that I’m bit special, it can be quite comforting. Conceptually we understand things about how birds work but the fact there is a blob of millions or billions of cells functioning to produce a bird, which can fly, completely autonomously is quite peculiar and there is a type of magic or wonder to it all which makes me think birds are both special and magic if you think differently about existence and not just the intellectual concept of a bird.

looseyesterday 3y ago

I don't get the argument. I don't think something being magic will stop humans from exploiting it. At the end of the day intelligent people are great at coming up with excuses as to why they should do something bad. "Just chop that one tree down, its in the wrong place anyway" "Just kill that one dolphin, its old anyway" when taken together these add up to bad outcomes we dislike. Much better to discourage / fine / ban all tree chopping and dolphin killing and let select professionals remove sick trees and dolphins.