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>Arm-Qualcomm laptops [...] upstream Linux [...] minus the walled garden You clearly never witnessed Qualcomm's MO. They're the kings of manufacturing propriet

>Arm-Qualcomm laptops [...] upstream Linux [...] minus the walled garden You clearly never witnessed Qualcomm's MO. They're the kings of manufacturing proprietary bullshit standards paralel to the open ones, closed firmware blobs and providing next to no Linux support. If this is what the PC future looks like, you can keep your ARM laptops, I'll gladly stick to ye' olde X86, where I can plug in a USB stick and install any OS I want without worries.

walterbell 3y ago
Old dogs can learn new tricks to compete with Apple, https://www.phoronix.com/news/Qualcomm-Mainline-Linux-2024 https://www.phoronix.com/news/Qualcomm-Mainline-Linux-2024 They have publicly promised upstream Linux support for Elite X at launch. > I'll gladly stick to ye' olde X86, where I can plug in a USB stick and install any OS I want without worries. We'll find out soon if these new Arm laptops can bridge that compatibility gap thanks to UEFI and Arm SystemReady.
- throwaway48476 3y ago
  Qualcomm won't learn anything. They're a patent licensing firm masquerading as a tech company. Customer satisfaction is so far down their list of priorities they will never make a good product. I knew they would fuck it up the moment they bought Nuvia and confirmed it when the PMIC issue became public.
  - walterbell 3y ago
    Unlike Android phone OEMs with a culture of closed Arm hardware, the PC OEMs who have signed up to create Qualcomm-Nuvia laptops come from a culture of decades of relatively open and repairable x86 hardware. Some PC OEMs support large enterprise customers with stringent requirements for deployed devices. We don't need to declare defeat before the starter gun has even been fired. By several accounts, Apple is about to allow 1TB/$2000 iPad Pros to run MacOS VMs, which will likely expose silicon support for nested virtualization that can run Linux and other Arm VMs. Despite silicon support shipping for years in iPads, Apple has refused customer requests to enable VMs on iPads. Until 2024, where Apple delayed iPad Pro OLED launch to May 6th, ahead of Qualcomm/MS May 20th launch of Surface Pro with Windows 11 + Linux VMs. It's a bizarre world where Qualcomm+Microsoft can offer the least-closed Arm laptop to run multiple bare-metal and virtualized operating systems, but here we are. If Qualcomm and PC OEMs can push Apple to be more open, all customers will benefit. If enough customers buy PC Arm laptops for OS flexibility and performance-per-watt of battery life, the revenue and OEM/customer pressure may push Qualcomm into a less-closed direction.
    - throwaway48476 3y ago
      None of that is going to happen. Qualcomm sells modems and you get the SoC free. In laptops they're going to fail hard. And virtualization works just fine in x86 land. Even GPU virtualization is supported by intel iGPU.
      - walterbell 3y ago
        Intel is good for desktops and servers, especially when motivated by AMD competition, but fell short in mobile due to poor battery life. They invested billions to crack the mobile and 5G modem markets, but sadly failed to provide meaningful competition. Apple took over the Intel 5G modem team, but Apple's replacement for Qualcomm's 5G modem has been repeatedly delayed. Qualcomm has a $30B+ pipeline in the growing vehicle market, they don't need to squeeze the declining laptop CPU sector. They can sell overpriced modems in PC laptops/tablets. The next hardware market is dedicated "AI" silicon, with Microsoft's "AI PC" roadmap requiring 40 TOPS on client devices, which Qualcomm is eager to provide and conveniently aligns with their automotive pipeline.
- MisterTea 3y ago
  > They have publicly promised upstream Linux support for Elite X at launch. I rather they give us real programming manuals instead of poorly commented Linux code that diddles a black box. Linux inst the only OS out there.
  - walterbell 3y ago
    Baby steps :) Upstream Linux at device launch is a big step forward from past practices.
paulmd 3y ago
> You clearly never witnessed Qualcomm's MO. They're the kings of manufacturing proprietary bullshit say no more https://semiaccurate.com/2023/09/26/whats-going-on-with-qualcomms-oryon-soc/ https://semiaccurate.com/2023/09/26/whats-going-on-with-qual... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37709270 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37709270 (it may or may not be true, semiaccurate's track record is... "checkered", and afaik reports were this doesn't seem to have shipped in the final product, but the fact that it's even a question...)
- walterbell 3y ago
  > semiaccurate's track record is... "checkered", and afaik reports were this doesn't seem to have shipped in the final product Sunlight is a good disinfectant. We need more tech journalists to shine light on pre-production supply chains, early enough to improve GA hardware.

walterbell 3y ago

Old dogs can learn new tricks to compete with Apple, https://www.phoronix.com/news/Qualcomm-Mainline-Linux-2024 https://www.phoronix.com/news/Qualcomm-Mainline-Linux-2024 They have publicly promised upstream Linux support for Elite X at launch. > I'll gladly stick to ye' olde X86, where I can plug in a USB stick and install any OS I want without worries. We'll find out soon if these new Arm laptops can bridge that compatibility gap thanks to UEFI and Arm SystemReady.

throwaway48476 3y ago
Qualcomm won't learn anything. They're a patent licensing firm masquerading as a tech company. Customer satisfaction is so far down their list of priorities they will never make a good product. I knew they would fuck it up the moment they bought Nuvia and confirmed it when the PMIC issue became public.
- walterbell 3y ago
  Unlike Android phone OEMs with a culture of closed Arm hardware, the PC OEMs who have signed up to create Qualcomm-Nuvia laptops come from a culture of decades of relatively open and repairable x86 hardware. Some PC OEMs support large enterprise customers with stringent requirements for deployed devices. We don't need to declare defeat before the starter gun has even been fired. By several accounts, Apple is about to allow 1TB/$2000 iPad Pros to run MacOS VMs, which will likely expose silicon support for nested virtualization that can run Linux and other Arm VMs. Despite silicon support shipping for years in iPads, Apple has refused customer requests to enable VMs on iPads. Until 2024, where Apple delayed iPad Pro OLED launch to May 6th, ahead of Qualcomm/MS May 20th launch of Surface Pro with Windows 11 + Linux VMs. It's a bizarre world where Qualcomm+Microsoft can offer the least-closed Arm laptop to run multiple bare-metal and virtualized operating systems, but here we are. If Qualcomm and PC OEMs can push Apple to be more open, all customers will benefit. If enough customers buy PC Arm laptops for OS flexibility and performance-per-watt of battery life, the revenue and OEM/customer pressure may push Qualcomm into a less-closed direction.
  - throwaway48476 3y ago
    None of that is going to happen. Qualcomm sells modems and you get the SoC free. In laptops they're going to fail hard. And virtualization works just fine in x86 land. Even GPU virtualization is supported by intel iGPU.
    - walterbell 3y ago
      Intel is good for desktops and servers, especially when motivated by AMD competition, but fell short in mobile due to poor battery life. They invested billions to crack the mobile and 5G modem markets, but sadly failed to provide meaningful competition. Apple took over the Intel 5G modem team, but Apple's replacement for Qualcomm's 5G modem has been repeatedly delayed. Qualcomm has a $30B+ pipeline in the growing vehicle market, they don't need to squeeze the declining laptop CPU sector. They can sell overpriced modems in PC laptops/tablets. The next hardware market is dedicated "AI" silicon, with Microsoft's "AI PC" roadmap requiring 40 TOPS on client devices, which Qualcomm is eager to provide and conveniently aligns with their automotive pipeline.
MisterTea 3y ago
> They have publicly promised upstream Linux support for Elite X at launch. I rather they give us real programming manuals instead of poorly commented Linux code that diddles a black box. Linux inst the only OS out there.
- walterbell 3y ago
  Baby steps :) Upstream Linux at device launch is a big step forward from past practices.

paulmd 3y ago

> You clearly never witnessed Qualcomm's MO. They're the kings of manufacturing proprietary bullshit say no more https://semiaccurate.com/2023/09/26/whats-going-on-with-qualcomms-oryon-soc/ https://semiaccurate.com/2023/09/26/whats-going-on-with-qual... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37709270 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37709270 (it may or may not be true, semiaccurate's track record is... "checkered", and afaik reports were this doesn't seem to have shipped in the final product, but the fact that it's even a question...)

walterbell 3y ago
> semiaccurate's track record is... "checkered", and afaik reports were this doesn't seem to have shipped in the final product Sunlight is a good disinfectant. We need more tech journalists to shine light on pre-production supply chains, early enough to improve GA hardware.