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> its addition to municipal water can amount to an unwanted medication Very interesting way of thinking about that. I understand the benefits of fluoride but I
by MichaelMug 3y ago
> its addition to municipal water can amount to an unwanted medication
Very interesting way of thinking about that. I understand the benefits of fluoride but I also understand this sentiment.
- sanex 3y agoYeah I mean what's the problem with just swishing some fluoride every once in a while. They used to bring it to us in school and ironically told us NOT to swallow it.
- tekla 3y agoDosages are a thing.
- woodruffw 3y agoThe problem is that a lot of people (a truly shocking number) won’t do that, and can’t be forced to (nobody wants the Toothpaste Gestapo). Without public health programs for things like fluoridation or vaccination, small slices of the population become disproportionate sinks of public health resources. (You were told not to swallow the fluoride in school because it’s significantly more concentrated than contents in the water supply. The dose makes the medicine and the poison.)
- thsksbd 3y agoFluoride is a chronic toxin so the dose is the accumulated exposure.
- woodruffw 3y agoI don’t think fluoride is considered a ”chronic” toxin at the levels found in municipal US water supplies. As noted elsewhere, these levels are pretty close to (and sometimes significantly below) natural fluoride groundwater levels elsewhere in the world. (Saying that fluoride accumulates profoundly misses the point: it is supposed to accumulate. What fluoride doesn’t do is accumulate in soft tissues, which is why acute exposures to high doses of fluoride don’t guarantee intellectual forestallment like lead frequently does.)
- thsksbd 3y agoFirst of all just because a water source is natural doesn't make it safe. Sea water, sulfonate rich springs, etc are bad for drinking. That there are places around the world that have high with F doesn't make it safe. There are places in the world that had catastrophically high rates of cretinism. Turns out it was a natural factor in an otherwise idyllic natural setting. I am aware that fluorine is supposed to accumulate in your teeth and doesnt in "soft" tissue; but it also accumulates in your bones and anywhere there is calcium. Bones and teeth are not dead scaffolding, but an integral part of your body's biochemical system. I should know - they gnawed a hole into my hip to get at my marrow.
- woodruffw 3y agoI’m not talking about mineral springs, or chugging a glass of seawater. I’m talking about the groundwater for much of continental Europe. Again: it’s supposed to bioaccumulate there. Bioaccumulation is a part of homeostasis; the fact that iron (calcium, etc.) bioaccumulates is neither a reason to avoid it nor to exceed a healthy dietary quantity. And the evidence is overwhelmingly supportive of municipal fluoride levels being both safe and sufficient for dental health.
- xk_id 3y ago
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y agoI've made a moderate attempt at avoiding fluoride most of my life. I got my first and only cavity 7 years ago when I was 29.
- sophacles 3y agoPeople go entire lifetimes not wearing seatbelts and die to old age rather than car crashes. This doesn't change the fact that fewer people die in car crashes when they wear seatbelts. Your relationship with cavities doesn't change anything about the statistics of cavities with and without flouride in people's diet.
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y agoMy cavity free mouth doesn't need fluoride and I don't want it in my water
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- sophacles 3y agoWait... Is your mouth cavity free, or did you get your first one 7 years ago? I was merely pointing out that your anecdote is already part of the statistical evidence and not particularly useful to a discussion of whether it should be added to water "I don't want it in my water" is actually a better and more relevant thing to say. As irrational as they are, peoples comfort levels, personal beliefs, and fears are rational to consider for policy decisions. (All people have irrational beliefs , fears, etc - its just a fact of people).
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y agoIt's been cavity free for 36 years minus a month in 2017
- xk_id 3y agoI've taken fluoride supplements as a child and I've never had a cavity in my entire life. So with n=2, the evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of fluoride.
- bawolff 3y agoThat would apply to any fortified food. The iodine in your salt, the vitamin D in your milk, etc.
- thsksbd 3y agoI can buy non-iodized salt (in fact its hard not to at WF), and non-fortified milk or bread very easily. At an insignificant price difference. It is impossible to buy non-fluorinated drinking water that is not orders of magnitude more expensive than tap. Then again, I don't consider tap water to be potable in the US so I guess its a wash.
- weinberg 3y agoWF meaning…Whole Foods?
- thsksbd 3y agoYeah. Its basically my corner store. It was frustratingly annoying to buy iodized salt for my pregnant wife there.
- DEADMINCE 3y ago> I don't consider tap water to be potable in the US That's a weird sentiment considering the US has some of the highest quality drinking water in the world.
- Anonbrit 3y agoUnless you live in Flint...
- thsksbd 3y agoScientists who work in government (DOE, EPA, etc) keep telling me that but I don't believe them. I worked alongside them and I wasn't impressed by most of them. Result? I dodged a mini-Flint that occurred in my tiny corner of the Midwest. Two if you include the aftermath of Bethlehem, OH. Anyway "rest of the world" is a spurious comparison. Im interested in comparing with Switzerland's water quality, not Eritrea's .
- SilasX 3y agoYes. Imagine if they put lithium in the water based on the evidence that microdosing it calms the population and reduces violence and overall mental health issues. That atomic number is a lot more controversial!
- woodruffw 3y agoIt should not be especially astonishing that public health programs for dental health and public immunity are substantially less controversial than putting a mood stabilizer in the water would be. Why conflate these as if one implies the other?
- ryandrake 3y agoActually, it doesn’t sound like a bad idea, IF it could be shown to 1. be effective and 2. cost the public less than the aggregate sum of individual mental health mitigations. A more mentally healthy, less violent, less aggressive, less belligerent society sounds great to me.
- rokkitmensch 3y agoBring on the Soma, Dr. Orwell!
- voisin 3y agoDr Huxley! (Soma was Brave New World.)
- rokkitmensch 3y agoahhh I get my visionaries mixed up and fail to double check my citations!
- salawat 3y agoSomeone didn't pay attention to what happened to Miranda in Firefly. Furthermore, as others mentioned, Huxley would like a word.