4 ms·

Can you be more specific on the details what was or were wrong in the description of embryology inside the Quran since I'm genuinely curious. Actually Galen go

Can you be more specific on the details what was or were wrong in the description of embryology inside the Quran since I'm genuinely curious. Actually Galen got so many things wrong and he was corrected by medieval Muslim scholars and later by modern scholars, eventhough during his time and hundred years after that he was considered infallible. For example his flawed concept of blood circulation was corrected by Ibnu Nafis, several hundreds years before Harvey [1],[2]. [1] Galen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galen [2] An untold story: The important contributions of Muslim scholars for the understanding of human anatomy: https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.23523 https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.2...

exe34 3y ago
I can't remember when I first came across it, but this seems quite thorough as far as comparisons go: https://maria911.wordpress.com/2009/09/13/192/ https://maria911.wordpress.com/2009/09/13/192/ NB: i didn't say islamic scholars didn't contribute anything, I was referring to the Koran itself.
- teleforce 3y ago
  Thanks for the link for the article, it is nice to read some other perspectives about the matter. It seems that the claim of Quran plagiarism of Greek embroyology has been debunked and refuted by these articles [1],[2],[3]. For a start Muhammad himself is a well known illiterate or ummi in Arabic. Even if he could read and write, he could not have acquired knowledge of Greek or Hellenic embryology via written works since the first major translations of Greek embryology into Arabic began at least 150 years after the death of Muhammad. The irony is that, after the translation efforts (due to generosity of the Caliphs including Al-Ma'mun who famously pay in weight of gold the equivalent of the weight of every translations into Arabic) there are now more Galen works in Arabic than in Greek! Al-Mamun also famously accepted a peace treaty from Roman Byzantine Empire in the form of original copy of Ptolemy's Almagest [4]. He could easily wallop the Byzantine Empire if he wished since he is the one who fully conquered Afghanistan, not an easy feat even by today standard where the mightiest of Empires including British, Russian and US government has recently failed. [1] Did the prophet Muhammad Plagiarise Ancient Greek Embroyology? https://www.hamzatzortzis.com/did-the-prophet-muhammad-plagiarise-hellenic-embryology/ https://www.hamzatzortzis.com/did-the-prophet-muhammad-plagi... [2] Does the Qur’an Plagiarse Ancient Greek Embryology? https://islam-papers.com/2011/10/02/does-the-quran-plagiarse-ancient-greek-embryology/ https://islam-papers.com/2011/10/02/does-the-quran-plagiarse... [3] A Muslim Answer To Criticism Of "Embryology in the Qur'an: https://www.call-to-monotheism.com/a_muslim_answer_to_criticism_of__embryology_in_the_qur_an___by_nadeem_arif_najmi https://www.call-to-monotheism.com/a_muslim_answer_to_critic... [4] al-Ma'mun: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ma%27mun https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ma%27mun
  - exe34 3y ago
    Denying something isn't debunking it. Is it more likely that the almighty creator of the universe talked to an uneducated loser in the desert and just happened to make the exact same mistakes that Galen made, or, alternatively, that the so called prophet obtained the information from somebody who had come across a talkative Greek?
    - teleforce 3y ago
      Did you read the linked article or just want to comment out of ignorance? If you read the articles, the are many differences between Galen own description and description inside the Quran. Furthemore, Galen written sources are not available during the time of Quran revealation and all the translations to Arabic was performed hundreds years after Quran was revealed mostly perhaps during Al-Ma'mun time. As I asserted before Galen had many things wrong in his works and books, they had to be corrected by medieval Muslim scholars and modern scholars. If you copied or performed plagiarism ignorantly, naturally you will copy the exact same mistakes but this is not the case for Quran. And it also the miracle of the Quran that it was revealed to an illiterate person (not uneducated because at the time most learning done via oral tradition) so that people like you cannot say he was copying from the Greek, the Hindu, etc. And mind you Muhammad is not a loser since he was a respected and wealthy traders in Mecca, from the ruling family of Quraish. Naturally it is much easier to accuse someone of plagiarism if he can read or write, but it is much harder to do the same if someone is illiterate because you have to proof another knowledgeable human as the source or narrator to be complicit, and they have to be existed in the same time frame and meet somewhere, somehow.
      - exe34 3y ago
        So how did the almighty creator of the universe fuck it up? Seems like an even bigger miracle to me - the lord works in mysterious ways, eh?
        teleforce 3y ago
        Are you confused or trolling, but I will bite. There's no issue with the Quran version of the embryology, the only issue is with Galen's version, and among others Galen also messed up the blood circulation descriptions as been corrected by Al Nafis and later Harvey. If by your claim that the Quran copied Galen then both of them should be wrong, which is not the case because both of them have different versions, and it is proven that Galen version is wrong but not Quran. This also supported by the fact that Galen's books are not available in Arabic during Muhammad time and translation occurred hundred of years after that. Miraclely (if there is a word for that), Quran already anticipated people like you and refuted the claim inside the Quran itself. In the Quran it's mentioned that the non believers (in Arabic Kafir, literally denial of the truth) at the time accused Muhammad consulted the non Arab (foreigner) because the level of the sophistication of the Quran description of the universe, star, embryology, geology, etc are not known amongst the Arab society at the time (actually the knowledge are not available anywhere since it is considered novel like the wormhole or Al-Ma'arij concept as posted by OP) [1],[2]. The accused and suspected foreigner's mother tongue apparently is not Arabic and not expert in Arabic, but Quran Arabic language is so eloquent, exquisite and par excellent, even now after about 1500 years it is still considered the corpus and golden reference of Arabic language. Quran even challenges people like you to produce a Chapter or surah (not even a book) that is comparable to Quran however until now there challenges have not been answered, and it never will. If that is not the greatest miracle, I am not sure what is? [1] https://quran.com/an-nahl/103 https://quran.com/an-nahl/103 And We surely know that they say, “No one is teaching him except a human.” But the man they refer to speaks a foreign tongue, whereas this Quran is in eloquent Arabic. [2] https://quran.com/an-nahl/104 https://quran.com/an-nahl/104 Surely those who do not believe in Allah’s revelations will never be guided by Allah, and they will suffer a painful punishment.

exe34 3y ago

I can't remember when I first came across it, but this seems quite thorough as far as comparisons go: https://maria911.wordpress.com/2009/09/13/192/ https://maria911.wordpress.com/2009/09/13/192/ NB: i didn't say islamic scholars didn't contribute anything, I was referring to the Koran itself.

teleforce 3y ago
Thanks for the link for the article, it is nice to read some other perspectives about the matter. It seems that the claim of Quran plagiarism of Greek embroyology has been debunked and refuted by these articles [1],[2],[3]. For a start Muhammad himself is a well known illiterate or ummi in Arabic. Even if he could read and write, he could not have acquired knowledge of Greek or Hellenic embryology via written works since the first major translations of Greek embryology into Arabic began at least 150 years after the death of Muhammad. The irony is that, after the translation efforts (due to generosity of the Caliphs including Al-Ma'mun who famously pay in weight of gold the equivalent of the weight of every translations into Arabic) there are now more Galen works in Arabic than in Greek! Al-Mamun also famously accepted a peace treaty from Roman Byzantine Empire in the form of original copy of Ptolemy's Almagest [4]. He could easily wallop the Byzantine Empire if he wished since he is the one who fully conquered Afghanistan, not an easy feat even by today standard where the mightiest of Empires including British, Russian and US government has recently failed. [1] Did the prophet Muhammad Plagiarise Ancient Greek Embroyology? https://www.hamzatzortzis.com/did-the-prophet-muhammad-plagiarise-hellenic-embryology/ https://www.hamzatzortzis.com/did-the-prophet-muhammad-plagi... [2] Does the Qur’an Plagiarse Ancient Greek Embryology? https://islam-papers.com/2011/10/02/does-the-quran-plagiarse-ancient-greek-embryology/ https://islam-papers.com/2011/10/02/does-the-quran-plagiarse... [3] A Muslim Answer To Criticism Of "Embryology in the Qur'an: https://www.call-to-monotheism.com/a_muslim_answer_to_criticism_of__embryology_in_the_qur_an___by_nadeem_arif_najmi https://www.call-to-monotheism.com/a_muslim_answer_to_critic... [4] al-Ma'mun: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ma%27mun https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ma%27mun
- exe34 3y ago
  Denying something isn't debunking it. Is it more likely that the almighty creator of the universe talked to an uneducated loser in the desert and just happened to make the exact same mistakes that Galen made, or, alternatively, that the so called prophet obtained the information from somebody who had come across a talkative Greek?
  - teleforce 3y ago
    Did you read the linked article or just want to comment out of ignorance? If you read the articles, the are many differences between Galen own description and description inside the Quran. Furthemore, Galen written sources are not available during the time of Quran revealation and all the translations to Arabic was performed hundreds years after Quran was revealed mostly perhaps during Al-Ma'mun time. As I asserted before Galen had many things wrong in his works and books, they had to be corrected by medieval Muslim scholars and modern scholars. If you copied or performed plagiarism ignorantly, naturally you will copy the exact same mistakes but this is not the case for Quran. And it also the miracle of the Quran that it was revealed to an illiterate person (not uneducated because at the time most learning done via oral tradition) so that people like you cannot say he was copying from the Greek, the Hindu, etc. And mind you Muhammad is not a loser since he was a respected and wealthy traders in Mecca, from the ruling family of Quraish. Naturally it is much easier to accuse someone of plagiarism if he can read or write, but it is much harder to do the same if someone is illiterate because you have to proof another knowledgeable human as the source or narrator to be complicit, and they have to be existed in the same time frame and meet somewhere, somehow.
    - exe34 3y ago
      So how did the almighty creator of the universe fuck it up? Seems like an even bigger miracle to me - the lord works in mysterious ways, eh?
      - teleforce 3y ago
        Are you confused or trolling, but I will bite. There's no issue with the Quran version of the embryology, the only issue is with Galen's version, and among others Galen also messed up the blood circulation descriptions as been corrected by Al Nafis and later Harvey. If by your claim that the Quran copied Galen then both of them should be wrong, which is not the case because both of them have different versions, and it is proven that Galen version is wrong but not Quran. This also supported by the fact that Galen's books are not available in Arabic during Muhammad time and translation occurred hundred of years after that. Miraclely (if there is a word for that), Quran already anticipated people like you and refuted the claim inside the Quran itself. In the Quran it's mentioned that the non believers (in Arabic Kafir, literally denial of the truth) at the time accused Muhammad consulted the non Arab (foreigner) because the level of the sophistication of the Quran description of the universe, star, embryology, geology, etc are not known amongst the Arab society at the time (actually the knowledge are not available anywhere since it is considered novel like the wormhole or Al-Ma'arij concept as posted by OP) [1],[2]. The accused and suspected foreigner's mother tongue apparently is not Arabic and not expert in Arabic, but Quran Arabic language is so eloquent, exquisite and par excellent, even now after about 1500 years it is still considered the corpus and golden reference of Arabic language. Quran even challenges people like you to produce a Chapter or surah (not even a book) that is comparable to Quran however until now there challenges have not been answered, and it never will. If that is not the greatest miracle, I am not sure what is? [1] https://quran.com/an-nahl/103 https://quran.com/an-nahl/103 And We surely know that they say, “No one is teaching him except a human.” But the man they refer to speaks a foreign tongue, whereas this Quran is in eloquent Arabic. [2] https://quran.com/an-nahl/104 https://quran.com/an-nahl/104 Surely those who do not believe in Allah’s revelations will never be guided by Allah, and they will suffer a painful punishment.