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> If your roof is 20 years old and one hailstorm is going to take it off, It amazes me that people in the US would even consider installing a roof that would o

> If your roof is 20 years old and one hailstorm is going to take it off, It amazes me that people in the US would even consider installing a roof that would only last 20 years. In the UK, you wouldn't consider reroofing anything that your grandparents remember being installed. Ie. Stuff doesn't get reroofed till it's 100 years old. Even then, you'll normally inspect and only replace the damaged bits. My 350 year old house still has part of its original roof and slate tiles etc.

hikingsimulator 3y ago
The weather in the US can be wild compared to what Western Europe is used to. England doesn't have to deal with the same events.
- rvba 3y ago
  Those Ukrainian concrete buildings can take a bomb and still stand...
zwayhowder 3y ago
My house is about 100 years old and still has the original concrete tile roof, with a stack of spare tiles under the house ready if needed. An extension that was done in the 1980s has had to have its roof replaced once already due to what I have to assume was poor workmanship by the builder.
EligibleDecoy 3y ago
It’s called “money.” That is the reason. Slate roofs are common in the UK, and using synthetic slate is $7-12/sqft, whereas bitumen/asphalt shingles which are common in the USA cost $0.50-$1.00/sqft. Average home in the USA is 2,200 sq ft with a roof size of 1,700 sq ft. So $1,700 vs $11,900 is quite a difference (and that was being most generous, excluding installation costs, etc) So basically, average person who owns a house has a big house, and big roofs are already expensive. Regardless of wanting to get a high quality roof that would last more than 30 years, that requires capital - more than the average owner really has access too. Sources: https://www.architecturaldigest.com/reviews/roofing/slate-ro https://www.architecturaldigest.com/reviews/roofing/slate-ro... https://www.architecturaldigest.com/reviews/roofing/shingle- https://www.architecturaldigest.com/reviews/roofing/shingle-... https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/average-square-footage- https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/average-square-footage-... https://www.rubyhome.com/blog/roofing-stats/ https://www.rubyhome.com/blog/roofing-stats/
- sologoub 3y ago
  Materials may cost that, but you are not getting a roof replaced for $1,700. Maybe $17,000 and even then it’s pushing it on the coasts especially. Labor and other overhead costs have really gone up and contractors don’t want to deal with small jobs. Sad really. I’ve never seen slate roofs in California, so not sure if these are to code here. We looked at metal and other materials, but the problem is the weight is different, so now you are engaging an engineer to evaluate structure, submitting plans, dealing with code updates. Or just new asphalt shingles every 15-20 years. The payoff isn’t there and folks don’t tend to keep houses for generations, unlike in the UK.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    There is very little acceptable roofing slate available in the USA. PA has a few quarries that provide it, but according to roofers (in PA) that I talked to, it is still nowhere close in quality to, say, Welsh slate. Too many voids which when coupled with much more severe freeze/thaw cycling in much of the USA leads to early failures. I think you may be overestimating the extent to which UK houses are held for "generations.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      And even if you import Welsh slate, you may have to import workers, too. Because if you're trying to use building materials that the local contractors are not familiar with, you're going to have a bad time.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    Slate isn't the only material with decent longevity. Ceramic and concrete tile should both last 100+ years.
    - sologoub 3y ago
      In my comment I said we looked into metal and other materials, but all increase weight, requiring engineering evaluation of the house and likely reinforcing the structure. Ceramic and concrete tiles are common here, but have the same problem. Don’t know about slate, but for the tiles you mention underlayment still needs to be replaced every 20-30 years at least requiring these to be removed and reapplied. Since labor is the major cost driver, it’s basically like paying for a new roof.
majormajor 3y ago
Different types of storm are one thing. I think the biggest difference, though, is that the stereotypical single family US home of the 19th/20th century US expansion is on a large plot of land and has - so far - been one to get remodeled/expanded/revised several times in a hundred years. Houses are generally treated as mutable things, and people also often expect to move within a few decades, spending more to put in something that will hold up a hundred years instead of twenty seems foolhardy to many. If you sell it the buyer will likely want a cosmetic refresh; if you keep it, you likely will too.
IggleSniggle 3y ago
If you think that's wild, consider that the standard practice in Japan is to buy land and build new...even if that means tearing down the building that is currently built there. As a result, buildings are built more according to the rules of fashion, and building to last longer than the current occupant would seem like a foolhardy waste of money.
- kalleboo 3y ago
  Although one thing to keep in mind is that earthquake-proofing building standards are also renewed about once per generation. I would absolutely refuse to let my family live in a house built before the post-Hanshin 2000 reforms (just look at the houses collapsed in the recent Noto earthquake, most of them predated even the earlier 1981 reforms)
duped 3y ago
No one is building homes to last 150 years in the United States, and very rarely do people want to buy homes built a century ago. Where I live we call a century-old home a "tear down" because it's probably in horrible condition. There are a handful in my neighborhood but they get sold at a discount, usually for new construction.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  That's wild. I live in one of the oldest cities west of the Rockies (granted, that isn't -that- old) and there are whole neighborhoods of century homes, and they're considered desirable. In the last 10-20 years a bunch have been gutted and upgraded -- new pipes, wiring, windows, etc. Maintains the charm but modern efficiency, convenience, and safety. Sure, some become tear-downs, but a pretty high percentage are sticking around. That old growth doug fir is awesome. I just sold a century home myself, after my mother passed. There was a little bidding war for it, even in this market. There's a character to the century homes that you cannot get in a new home at anywhere near the same price point.
vba616 3y ago
That sounds very nice. What would a competitive rent for your house be? Is it near London? For Americans who don't know anything about housing in the UK, there is an interesting article at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_house https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_house Being Wikipedia in 2024, I wouldn't assume it's not all AI hallucinated references, but still, it's interesting.
firesteelrain 3y ago
US has a lot of different weather patterns than the UK. UK sits at a latitude similar to that of states like Washington, Montana, and North Dakota. The choice of roofing materials is also influenced by building regulations and codes, which can vary between countries and even within regions, dictating the use of certain materials for fire resistance, insulation, and other safety and performance standards. Cost-effectiveness is a factor. Like Florida with crazy hurricanes, no reason to be spending money on something besides asphalt architectural style shingles. Some people do get metal roofs. But if its going to get blown off, then why?
- GenerWork 3y ago
  >Like Florida with crazy hurricanes, no reason to be spending money on something besides asphalt architectural style shingles. Some people do get metal roofs. But if its going to get blown off, then why? Tile and metal roofs last much longer than asphalt roofs in Florida, and while it's definitely more up front, they're generally more resistant to extreme weather (tiles are very heavy and metal is generally fastened down very well) and may get you an insurance discount. It's also for aesthetic reasons, as tile roofs are a very classic Florida look, and the stereotypical Key West house has a metal roof.
  - firesteelrain 3y ago
    Tile roofs are a more Spanish style look and crazy expensive. Otherwise I agree with you
    - Brian_K_White 3y ago
      per year
PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
The UK has a massively milder climate than most of the USA, which provides significant assistance to things lasting. As I noted in another comment below, roofing slate is essentially unavailable in the USA due to geology - what does exist is of much lower quality than a good welsh slate. Still, in some ways I agree with you: roofing materials in general in the USA are far less durable those used in the UK and Europe, for reasons that I don't entirely undestand. That said, it amazes me that huge numbers of people in the UK live in essentially uninsulated and almost uninsulatable buildings. Sure, winters are mild, but anytime you have the heat on in the millions of homes built post-WWII, a huge amount of is just leaking through the brick walls. US stud framed construction has its problems if done carelessly, but it does have the benefit that its easy and obvious to insulate your walls to some degree, and not hard to do it to Passivhaus standards.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  > The UK has a massively milder climate than most of the USA, which provides significant assistance to things lasting. That makes sense. Roofs last a pretty long time in the PNW as well, for similar reasons. Mostly we just get rain. Not a lot of particularly hard freezes, our idea of big hail is 1/4 inch, etc. It's pretty routine for a garden variety "25 year roof" to actually do all 25 years, and even 30.
HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
Has your 350 year-old house been hit by hail, some of which is the size of golf balls, in enough volume that the ground is as white as if it had snowed? Because that's a not-uncommon occurrence here in the midwestern US.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  Ceramic tile and concrete tile roofs will survive that, and are also common in the UK. (Although tend to be only ~150 years old by now)

hikingsimulator 3y ago

The weather in the US can be wild compared to what Western Europe is used to. England doesn't have to deal with the same events.

rvba 3y ago
Those Ukrainian concrete buildings can take a bomb and still stand...

zwayhowder 3y ago

My house is about 100 years old and still has the original concrete tile roof, with a stack of spare tiles under the house ready if needed. An extension that was done in the 1980s has had to have its roof replaced once already due to what I have to assume was poor workmanship by the builder.

EligibleDecoy 3y ago

It’s called “money.” That is the reason. Slate roofs are common in the UK, and using synthetic slate is $7-12/sqft, whereas bitumen/asphalt shingles which are common in the USA cost $0.50-$1.00/sqft. Average home in the USA is 2,200 sq ft with a roof size of 1,700 sq ft. So $1,700 vs $11,900 is quite a difference (and that was being most generous, excluding installation costs, etc) So basically, average person who owns a house has a big house, and big roofs are already expensive. Regardless of wanting to get a high quality roof that would last more than 30 years, that requires capital - more than the average owner really has access too. Sources: https://www.architecturaldigest.com/reviews/roofing/slate-ro https://www.architecturaldigest.com/reviews/roofing/slate-ro... https://www.architecturaldigest.com/reviews/roofing/shingle- https://www.architecturaldigest.com/reviews/roofing/shingle-... https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/average-square-footage- https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/average-square-footage-... https://www.rubyhome.com/blog/roofing-stats/ https://www.rubyhome.com/blog/roofing-stats/

sologoub 3y ago
Materials may cost that, but you are not getting a roof replaced for $1,700. Maybe $17,000 and even then it’s pushing it on the coasts especially. Labor and other overhead costs have really gone up and contractors don’t want to deal with small jobs. Sad really. I’ve never seen slate roofs in California, so not sure if these are to code here. We looked at metal and other materials, but the problem is the weight is different, so now you are engaging an engineer to evaluate structure, submitting plans, dealing with code updates. Or just new asphalt shingles every 15-20 years. The payoff isn’t there and folks don’t tend to keep houses for generations, unlike in the UK.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  There is very little acceptable roofing slate available in the USA. PA has a few quarries that provide it, but according to roofers (in PA) that I talked to, it is still nowhere close in quality to, say, Welsh slate. Too many voids which when coupled with much more severe freeze/thaw cycling in much of the USA leads to early failures. I think you may be overestimating the extent to which UK houses are held for "generations.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    And even if you import Welsh slate, you may have to import workers, too. Because if you're trying to use building materials that the local contractors are not familiar with, you're going to have a bad time.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  Slate isn't the only material with decent longevity. Ceramic and concrete tile should both last 100+ years.
  - sologoub 3y ago
    In my comment I said we looked into metal and other materials, but all increase weight, requiring engineering evaluation of the house and likely reinforcing the structure. Ceramic and concrete tiles are common here, but have the same problem. Don’t know about slate, but for the tiles you mention underlayment still needs to be replaced every 20-30 years at least requiring these to be removed and reapplied. Since labor is the major cost driver, it’s basically like paying for a new roof.

majormajor 3y ago

Different types of storm are one thing. I think the biggest difference, though, is that the stereotypical single family US home of the 19th/20th century US expansion is on a large plot of land and has - so far - been one to get remodeled/expanded/revised several times in a hundred years. Houses are generally treated as mutable things, and people also often expect to move within a few decades, spending more to put in something that will hold up a hundred years instead of twenty seems foolhardy to many. If you sell it the buyer will likely want a cosmetic refresh; if you keep it, you likely will too.

IggleSniggle 3y ago

If you think that's wild, consider that the standard practice in Japan is to buy land and build new...even if that means tearing down the building that is currently built there. As a result, buildings are built more according to the rules of fashion, and building to last longer than the current occupant would seem like a foolhardy waste of money.

kalleboo 3y ago
Although one thing to keep in mind is that earthquake-proofing building standards are also renewed about once per generation. I would absolutely refuse to let my family live in a house built before the post-Hanshin 2000 reforms (just look at the houses collapsed in the recent Noto earthquake, most of them predated even the earlier 1981 reforms)

duped 3y ago

No one is building homes to last 150 years in the United States, and very rarely do people want to buy homes built a century ago. Where I live we call a century-old home a "tear down" because it's probably in horrible condition. There are a handful in my neighborhood but they get sold at a discount, usually for new construction.

rootusrootus 3y ago
That's wild. I live in one of the oldest cities west of the Rockies (granted, that isn't -that- old) and there are whole neighborhoods of century homes, and they're considered desirable. In the last 10-20 years a bunch have been gutted and upgraded -- new pipes, wiring, windows, etc. Maintains the charm but modern efficiency, convenience, and safety. Sure, some become tear-downs, but a pretty high percentage are sticking around. That old growth doug fir is awesome. I just sold a century home myself, after my mother passed. There was a little bidding war for it, even in this market. There's a character to the century homes that you cannot get in a new home at anywhere near the same price point.

vba616 3y ago

That sounds very nice. What would a competitive rent for your house be? Is it near London? For Americans who don't know anything about housing in the UK, there is an interesting article at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_house https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_house Being Wikipedia in 2024, I wouldn't assume it's not all AI hallucinated references, but still, it's interesting.

firesteelrain 3y ago

US has a lot of different weather patterns than the UK. UK sits at a latitude similar to that of states like Washington, Montana, and North Dakota. The choice of roofing materials is also influenced by building regulations and codes, which can vary between countries and even within regions, dictating the use of certain materials for fire resistance, insulation, and other safety and performance standards. Cost-effectiveness is a factor. Like Florida with crazy hurricanes, no reason to be spending money on something besides asphalt architectural style shingles. Some people do get metal roofs. But if its going to get blown off, then why?

GenerWork 3y ago
>Like Florida with crazy hurricanes, no reason to be spending money on something besides asphalt architectural style shingles. Some people do get metal roofs. But if its going to get blown off, then why? Tile and metal roofs last much longer than asphalt roofs in Florida, and while it's definitely more up front, they're generally more resistant to extreme weather (tiles are very heavy and metal is generally fastened down very well) and may get you an insurance discount. It's also for aesthetic reasons, as tile roofs are a very classic Florida look, and the stereotypical Key West house has a metal roof.
- firesteelrain 3y ago
  Tile roofs are a more Spanish style look and crazy expensive. Otherwise I agree with you
  - Brian_K_White 3y ago
    per year

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago

The UK has a massively milder climate than most of the USA, which provides significant assistance to things lasting. As I noted in another comment below, roofing slate is essentially unavailable in the USA due to geology - what does exist is of much lower quality than a good welsh slate. Still, in some ways I agree with you: roofing materials in general in the USA are far less durable those used in the UK and Europe, for reasons that I don't entirely undestand. That said, it amazes me that huge numbers of people in the UK live in essentially uninsulated and almost uninsulatable buildings. Sure, winters are mild, but anytime you have the heat on in the millions of homes built post-WWII, a huge amount of is just leaking through the brick walls. US stud framed construction has its problems if done carelessly, but it does have the benefit that its easy and obvious to insulate your walls to some degree, and not hard to do it to Passivhaus standards.

rootusrootus 3y ago
> The UK has a massively milder climate than most of the USA, which provides significant assistance to things lasting. That makes sense. Roofs last a pretty long time in the PNW as well, for similar reasons. Mostly we just get rain. Not a lot of particularly hard freezes, our idea of big hail is 1/4 inch, etc. It's pretty routine for a garden variety "25 year roof" to actually do all 25 years, and even 30.

HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago

Has your 350 year-old house been hit by hail, some of which is the size of golf balls, in enough volume that the ground is as white as if it had snowed? Because that's a not-uncommon occurrence here in the midwestern US.

londons_explore 3y ago
Ceramic tile and concrete tile roofs will survive that, and are also common in the UK. (Although tend to be only ~150 years old by now)