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That's one, very narrow way of viewing it. Another would be that cars lack the necessary visibility to be safe. No one in their right mind would advocate to ban

That's one, very narrow way of viewing it. Another would be that cars lack the necessary visibility to be safe. No one in their right mind would advocate to banning cars. Instead, sensors could be employed to make up for the lack of visibility in cars. This should maybe be the topic of discussion, to introduce these types of safety sensors as essential. ABS breaks weren't the norm a few decades ago, so why not start discussing making these safety sensors standard? One point of discussion could be what types of sensors there are, which vehicles they are employed and if they are effective.

2024throwaway 3y ago
I advocate for banning cars.
- Apreche 3y ago
  I also advocate banning cars. The greatest mistake our society has made. Not too late to correct it.
- RedShift1 3y ago
  Thanks for considering taking away the tool I need every day to get to my job
  - 2024throwaway 3y ago
    Thanks for assuming there are no other possible alternatives.
    - RedShift1 3y ago
      By car: 30 mins. Public transport: 1 hour 30 mins. I'm not wasting 2 extra hours each day.
      - matsemann 3y ago
        It's not like society without cars would be the exact same just without cars. People would live closer to where they need to be. It would be more public transport. More 15-minute cities etc. It's a bit dishonest to argue for continued car dominance just because it's already status quo.
        Turing_Machine 3y ago
        People aren't obligated to live where you think they ought to live, and no one put you in charge of using social control mechanisms to force them to conform to your opinions.
        matsemann 3y ago
        Way to miss the point, and please f off with your statements about me wanting to force people to do anything. What a shitty way to adress someone you disagree with. We do better here on HN, as a long term member I'm disappointed in your behavior. If better options were available, people would choose those. When we don't make better options because people are stuck in a local optima of car culture, there is no change. My point was what I wrote: you can't make a comparison with less cars as if everything else in society would have remained equal. Of course there would be secondary effects to handle the fact that people would have to live and travel differently.
        Turing_Machine 3y ago
        Please "f off" with your "dishonest" and "f off" statements. You don't get to call people "dishonest", tell them to "f off", call them "shitty", then get pious and offended when someone takes exception to that. > We do better here on HN, as a long term member I'm disappointed in your behavior. You've been here since 2013. I've been using this account since 2010 so you can "f off" with that, too. > If better options were available, people would choose those. "Better" according to who? You? If people can't get food, they start eating rats and shoe leather. It doesn't make it "better".
- sneak 3y ago
  [flagged]
- gchamonlive 3y ago
  You mean transitioning to a car-less society over a reasonable period of time or out right car ban? I am talking about the later in my comment. An I say "reasonable" intentionally vague because there are degrees of car dependency that varies between regions. On average, I believe Europe might be closer to banning private cars. USA I would bet not so much.
- bifrost 3y ago
  Thats gross.
  - 2024throwaway 3y ago
    Cars are gross. Exhaust. Oil. Tire wear microplastics.
kamray23 3y ago
Sensors form a big issue, though. The newer Teslas especially are excellent at ruining safety sensors for the rest of the industry. Now instead of turning your head left to look left and see your blind spot out of what should be a far enough back window to see your blind spot, you can crouch over to press buttons and then look at the small circle on the big screen which shows your blind spot. Fine otherwise but it incentivises not even looking out of your left window as you begin turning, and takes your sight off the road in general, even if for just a look, and even when automatically activated by the blinker. It's a profoundly unsafe safety system because it acts to take your sight away from where it should go, even if it means you don't have to quickly turn your head, and it allows lazier and less safe vehicle design as you no longer have to make sure the driver has possible sightlines to blind spots. Worse perhaps are all types of proximity sensors, because you can only trust them when they go off, and even then not always. Most cars get dirt on them, snow on them, rain on them and that tends to mess with proximity sensing enough to either disable the sensors or cause them to go off randomly. I don't think anyone has ever yet trusted the blind spot sensors on their mirrors to do a lane change, only aborted one because of them. Such non-camera sensors would fix almost nothing because at best they would sometimes cause people to reconsider swerving into a motorcyclist, and even then they usually go off way too late to prevent misfires while driving normally. These are great features when they work but overengineering around fundamental design problems seems to me to only put people too much at ease in their cars and make bad driver behaviour worse, because why spin your head around to check when you can just not do that and stare at the little screen or trust your array of easily fooled sensors to do safety in your place. I think solutions like finding alternative pillar configurations, creating long or short enough front side windows for you to see back, harsher driver's license testing with longer required study periods and in cases where you can't do anything else such as some pickups just doing what semis do and having several well-aligned mirrors instead of one set of nice-looking ones would be a lot safer in the end. As well as getting people who can't drive for shit off the road. That's sort of included in driver's license requirements but there's surely some other methods for it that I have not mentioned.

2024throwaway 3y ago

I advocate for banning cars.

Apreche 3y ago
I also advocate banning cars. The greatest mistake our society has made. Not too late to correct it.
RedShift1 3y ago
Thanks for considering taking away the tool I need every day to get to my job
- 2024throwaway 3y ago
  Thanks for assuming there are no other possible alternatives.
  - RedShift1 3y ago
    By car: 30 mins. Public transport: 1 hour 30 mins. I'm not wasting 2 extra hours each day.
    - matsemann 3y ago
      It's not like society without cars would be the exact same just without cars. People would live closer to where they need to be. It would be more public transport. More 15-minute cities etc. It's a bit dishonest to argue for continued car dominance just because it's already status quo.
      - Turing_Machine 3y ago
        People aren't obligated to live where you think they ought to live, and no one put you in charge of using social control mechanisms to force them to conform to your opinions.
        matsemann 3y ago
        Way to miss the point, and please f off with your statements about me wanting to force people to do anything. What a shitty way to adress someone you disagree with. We do better here on HN, as a long term member I'm disappointed in your behavior. If better options were available, people would choose those. When we don't make better options because people are stuck in a local optima of car culture, there is no change. My point was what I wrote: you can't make a comparison with less cars as if everything else in society would have remained equal. Of course there would be secondary effects to handle the fact that people would have to live and travel differently.
        Turing_Machine 3y ago
        Please "f off" with your "dishonest" and "f off" statements. You don't get to call people "dishonest", tell them to "f off", call them "shitty", then get pious and offended when someone takes exception to that. > We do better here on HN, as a long term member I'm disappointed in your behavior. You've been here since 2013. I've been using this account since 2010 so you can "f off" with that, too. > If better options were available, people would choose those. "Better" according to who? You? If people can't get food, they start eating rats and shoe leather. It doesn't make it "better".
sneak 3y ago
[flagged]
gchamonlive 3y ago
You mean transitioning to a car-less society over a reasonable period of time or out right car ban? I am talking about the later in my comment. An I say "reasonable" intentionally vague because there are degrees of car dependency that varies between regions. On average, I believe Europe might be closer to banning private cars. USA I would bet not so much.
bifrost 3y ago
Thats gross.
- 2024throwaway 3y ago
  Cars are gross. Exhaust. Oil. Tire wear microplastics.

kamray23 3y ago

Sensors form a big issue, though. The newer Teslas especially are excellent at ruining safety sensors for the rest of the industry. Now instead of turning your head left to look left and see your blind spot out of what should be a far enough back window to see your blind spot, you can crouch over to press buttons and then look at the small circle on the big screen which shows your blind spot. Fine otherwise but it incentivises not even looking out of your left window as you begin turning, and takes your sight off the road in general, even if for just a look, and even when automatically activated by the blinker. It's a profoundly unsafe safety system because it acts to take your sight away from where it should go, even if it means you don't have to quickly turn your head, and it allows lazier and less safe vehicle design as you no longer have to make sure the driver has possible sightlines to blind spots. Worse perhaps are all types of proximity sensors, because you can only trust them when they go off, and even then not always. Most cars get dirt on them, snow on them, rain on them and that tends to mess with proximity sensing enough to either disable the sensors or cause them to go off randomly. I don't think anyone has ever yet trusted the blind spot sensors on their mirrors to do a lane change, only aborted one because of them. Such non-camera sensors would fix almost nothing because at best they would sometimes cause people to reconsider swerving into a motorcyclist, and even then they usually go off way too late to prevent misfires while driving normally. These are great features when they work but overengineering around fundamental design problems seems to me to only put people too much at ease in their cars and make bad driver behaviour worse, because why spin your head around to check when you can just not do that and stare at the little screen or trust your array of easily fooled sensors to do safety in your place. I think solutions like finding alternative pillar configurations, creating long or short enough front side windows for you to see back, harsher driver's license testing with longer required study periods and in cases where you can't do anything else such as some pickups just doing what semis do and having several well-aligned mirrors instead of one set of nice-looking ones would be a lot safer in the end. As well as getting people who can't drive for shit off the road. That's sort of included in driver's license requirements but there's surely some other methods for it that I have not mentioned.